An Inconvenient Talk

grubedoo December 13, 2007

It looks like McShit.

If they want people to stay there give them something beautiful and unique by renovating the current building. If they want to tear something down it should be the Marriott.

grubedoo December 13, 2007

I just checked out their website. There is no chance of Hotel Concepts Inc. producing anything architecturally worthwhile. They have a portfolio of run-of-the-mill eye-sore hotel developments. Their work makes me nauseous.

snoopy December 13, 2007

What an atrocity. What an insult to the brewery/warehouse district. Looks similar to the Marriott. The City is better off letting the heidelberg remain vacant for the next fifty years than to tear it down for a generic hotel.

Jake December 13, 2007

If Silver Cloud Inn could do in in Seattle’s Stadium District I am sure Hotel concepts can do it here.

http://www.seattleboatshow.com/img/web_silvercloud_ex.jpg

zeeb December 13, 2007

Absolutely hideous. How sad that a cool historic building will be torn down to build an ugly, generic Holiday Inn you can find near any highway offramp.

Eric December 13, 2007

The city has really neglected this area significantly. None of the graffiti ordinences have been enforced and the crime rate is high due to some of the residences of the shelter trying to make a buck on victims in the neighborhood. Something architectually worthwhile is needed and not another shameless box. Tacoma needs to stand up for some design standards and not lay over and play dead. They need to address the significant parking issue in this area as well. Currently parking is non existant with the brewery currently boarded up.

sparkrobot December 13, 2007

I’m sure the carpeting in there will be really nice. Yawn.

John Moltz December 13, 2007

I’m not an architect but I know what I like…

And I don’t like that.

RR Anderson December 13, 2007

a great place to commit suicide! Bring the whole family! I’m sure you could attach the old water tower on that for historical tribute or whatever

daniel blue December 13, 2007

Lets tear down some more castle churches for the hospital before we build any more hotels for the highway, ok?

Hotel Concepts Inc???
Is there any more blatant way a company can scream, “We have generic ideas, choose us if you want to spoon feed yourselves into a strip mall utopia!”

Why can’t we just take a little chance and hire, “Lodging Wizardry”, or “Progressatecture”, or “Compelling Buildings for the city of the future”, or “retro-future space shapers”….

are there any other bids on the table?

someone contact the stonemasons, i want to talk to frank russel.

RR Anderson December 13, 2007

this design should go back to federal way.

rgardner December 13, 2007

I don’t see much redeeming in the Heidelberg building. The water tower on top is neat, as are the signs, but the rest is a plain industrial building that has 30 years of neglect rotting its core. Not all old industrial buildings make great artist lofts or condos. The hazardous waste issues (lead and asbestos) in this building have to be daunting.

However, a Holiday Inn Express? A relatively ugly one too. My gut feel is there is more here than meets the eye, because I don’t see this as a good business decision. I think we may be seeing something else proposed for this location, which will be welcomed just because it isn’t a Holiday Inn. Are the Sheraton/Murano, Courtyard and the Dome Best Western that full? Maybe they are, I admit I do not know. Downtown can probably support the addition of Hotel Winthrop, but how many people want to stay in downtown Tacoma on a routine basis, not just for occasional shows at the Dome? I just don’t see the market for 160 additional rooms.
The only plus I see is that it isn’t high end that some clamor for, but would never routinely stay in themselves. If you have an overfull house for the holidays and some guests are staying in a hotel, are Uncle Fred and Aunt Sally really going to want to stay in a $200-400/night room at the Murano (assuming their private jet doesn’t land at the Narrows Airport)? Or will they be happy at $70/night on Hosmer? Or $100/night on the edge of downtown?

Time will tell if this is a “bait and switch.” Maybe there are tax benefits to getting the building declared historic?

RR Anderson December 13, 2007

WAKE UP TACOMA this is another downtown Courtyard Marriott disaster!

drizell December 13, 2007

While I agree with nearly every comment so far, I think some small changes could help this hotel fit into the neighborhood a bit better:

1) Build the building right up to the street on all frontages.

2) Get rid of the porte cochere and replace it with a simple awning.

3) Get rid of the surface parking.

4) Change some of the exterior building materials to red brick or metal cladding to ensure a better fit into the surrounding neighborhood.

5) Name it the Heidelberg Hotel or something of that nature to help evoke memories of the site’s past uses.

Constructive criticism is almost always better than outright rejection. Instead of beating up on the developer, let’s show him or her how some small changes will enable them to build a better project and change their reputation for the better.

Erik B. December 13, 2007

I ditto drizzel on this one. Also, we have a re-use of a building in the area being used as a storage facility which doesn’t add much. Good from a historic standpoint I guess but little else.

A hotel would be great in the area by the UWT as long as it isn’t just a stucco box in the middle of a huge parking lot.

Also, must it be orange?

drizell December 13, 2007

sparkrobot,

I was actually dreading that they were thinking about putting single family homes there. No kidding. Even rowhouses wouldn’t do the site much justice. At least it’s a full six stories….

There are methods available to turn a bad proposal into a decent one. I think a hotel could be successful in that location. Imagine what kind of spin-off development it could spur. If anything, it could add life to one of the most desolate places in downtown.

Erik S December 13, 2007

Ugh. Nasssty.

If these hoteliers are concerned about attracting guests, they’re not doing themselves any favors with this design. Drizell’s ideas would help a little. In the end, though, the face of Tacoma as viewed by Travelers on I-5 (who already suffered through Fife or the mall) will be a third-rate McMotel and that condo tower on Pacific. We’re going to have to paint a sign on the Dome promising passers-by that the rest of the city isn’t ugly.

For the brave only: if you don’t like the way the proposal looks now, imagine it 20 or 30 years from now. Good grief.

Derek staff December 13, 2007

Here’s a side note: if you have feedback for the LPC regarding this project, please send it to the address now listed at the bottom of the post.

BROCK December 13, 2007

I can’t believe my ears/eyes…this hotel doesn’t even “fit” in with the feel of the area! Whatever happened to creating a “brewery district” with condos/restaurants/bars? A Holiday Inn express??? Who would want to stay in a hotel in that area anyway? We need that economic steering committee NOW! Will someone in this city council please do SOMETHING! This is really a shame….

Jake December 13, 2007

Who would want to stay in a hotel in that area anyway?

I dont’ think location is an issue here. It is actually a great location. It will be located on the south end of one of the most beautiful urban landscapes in the NW. It is next to a growing University. Walking distance to high and mid range restaurants. 2 blocks from the LINK station. Just blocks from Tacoma’s big tourist attractions.

snoopy December 13, 2007

This looks similar to the hotels that are in Federal Way which are visible from I-5.

rich December 13, 2007

hey here’s an idea….you know the whole U shopping area up by UoW seattle….now that’s the ticket……..all fairly unique retail, some familar ones……that’s the way to go for that area…….and nice…..I don’t recall what they call they place but’s its over by the stadium parking lots….

RR Anderson December 13, 2007

Comrades! you trusted your city leaders… and they gave you Courtyard Marriott… They gave you the ‘award winning’ Tollefson Square AND they’re taking away your 11th Street Bridge.

It is time dear comrades, to rise up like the mighty hydra (or water bear) and blow the minds of your oppressors.

Vote ROBERT “THE TRAVELER” HILL this November.

MattMike December 13, 2007

I agree with all of these comments so far. This drawing shows a clear disregard for the areas current feel. Personally, I much prefer the deserted, unusable, post-industrial look we have going on now in the Brewery District.

This area has the most potential in Tacoma for awesomeness. We need something big and attractive to bring in more development. Frankly this hotel could be it. Tweak the facade a bit – use the UWT if you need an aesthetic model.

Then take all the open courtyards, parking lots, etc in and around the brewery, the super wide streets, old train-track, etc. and make green space. Narrow the streets to create a huge walking district with just enough street width to allow cars to enter the hotel, condo parking garages, etc. Imagine Portland’s Pearl District but with narrow streets, flanked by wide green space, and maybe a street car or light-rail line running through it so people can use transit to get to work downtown or the tacoma dome.

My advice to the LPC: approve this project. Hassle them a bit, get something appropriately gritty and pretty, and then let them build. Once that gets going set some serious and specific district design rules. Boundaries. Maximum street width. Bike lanes. Side walks. Moratorium on PARKING LOTS. Serious mixed-use rules to get retail (that means Pottery Barn), apts, condos, groceries, restaurants, bars, and theaters.

Though – the problem with this is we’ll all be too old to walk around and go drinking in this district. But our grandkids will thank us.

Erik Hanberg December 13, 2007

MattMike,

I’m not 100% on everything in your post, but I think you’re right on that redevelopment of the district can go hand in hand with keeping its character.

Brotha E December 13, 2007

MattMike@26
I like what your sayn. I could see it in my head as I was readin your post. Except im still young enough to see it hopefully and saw it up on the Hilltop. Maybe they should come on up a few more blocks and get some 360 degree views.

CA December 13, 2007

Yuck! This thing is really terrible, even worse then the Marriott. I’ll pass….

morgan December 14, 2007

What is really a shame is that the owners of this property were allowed to let it sit and decay to the point where it’s demolition by neglect. Just like the Eagles building (gone) and the Luzon (on the edge of being gone).

For some reason we (in the US, in Washington State, in the City of Tacoma) have a perverted interpretation of what property “rights” are. In this view, it is a “right” to screw up the community by keeping properties blighted and vacant.

There are other countries that would take steps to “inspire” such owners to take action or get out. Of course I would get nowhere advocating eminent domain for cases like these, although I wish I could!

What we do need is accountability from slacker property owners. We need the city to enact stronger policies (with swift enforcement) regarding blighted and derelict buildings.

Mofo from the Hood December 14, 2007

Finally. A nearby Holiday Inn that I can take my date to after a night of socializing at the Acme Grub Cage.

rgardner December 14, 2007

TNT reports
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/updates/story/228744.html

Really, I am against another high end hotel as that will draw attention and dollars from The Winthrop (whenever it occurs). And this can’t be a stop off I-5, geography doesn’t allow it. And this is Tacoma, not a destination resort, so let us be real.

I think we are all agree that the proposed HI Express is bad, but what can be put there? Except for the tank and the signs, there is no there there. I think a better designed HI Express would be a good fit for that odd shaped lot.

I agree with Drizell’s arguments that we need to improve on the suggested design, but as I said above, the extant buildings are awful. (Disclaimer, this is my personal hidden parking location near the Harmon, so I guess in a few years I’ll have to start paying the WA State History Museum for parking).

Personally, I’d rather see an industrial application move in there, to keep the Tacoma grit, but it won’t happen.

morgan December 14, 2007

What about the artesian springs the building sits on and are piped throughout the complex?

Future spa?

kc December 14, 2007

boooo! hiss! thumbs down on this can of worms.

drizell December 14, 2007

RE: Post 20.

Let’s flood the LPC with comments. It is clear that the LPC members are skeptical about this proposal; let’s show the developer that there are more people out there clamoring for a better design.

If you submit a comment, you will become a Party of Record and will be mailed any future correspondence and materials related to this application.

Crenshaw Sepulveda December 14, 2007

For the love of god, do not let this happen to Tacoma. I’d rather see the brewery fall down into a heap of bricks then to see this abomination in its place.

I can only hope that Tacoma comes to her senses and forbids this type of development in place of our heritage. Tacoma was a fine brewing town, probably even more so than Olympia. Though the Olympia brewery is long gone it was one of the top destination points for visitors to Olympia. I bet if we had a functioning brewery it would get more visitors then all the museums put together. I doubt the Heidelberg could be salvaged but a modern brewery in the area would be a perfect fit. I’m sure we’ll get no takers from the big brewers, but some of the little brewers are getting pretty big and may consider such a venture. Brewery Row, now that is my kind of place.

Tad December 15, 2007

not only is this totally ugly, but it leaves me confused. i thought the ‘brewery district’ was to be for lofts, artist workshops, shopping and possibly a micro-brewery! i’ve always thought that the brewery district could be such a fun place to live, work and play; however, this eyesore will certainly not make that dream a reality.

cheesy hotels like this are meant to be around airports, not in the center of a city full of buildings with character waiting to be revitalized.

Laura Hanan December 15, 2007

….waiting being the operative word

rich December 15, 2007

hmmm, has the council really done anything that has really benefited Tacoma and not their pockets….I’m curious how much the mayor and council recieve annually as pay offs….hmmm….and it looks like they want health care now…..what a waste of space in city hall….please, can we get different leadership………..though, I have seen 1 or 2 Holiday inns around the country that could fit into that area…but, it would actually require the mayor and council having a back bone, and not taking the bribes to get something worthy of the area to be built………gee after the fantastic leadership with the Sound transit decision, I’m wondering who is on the board of this developement…hmm..sound transit was Miss ANDERSON…..bla, bla, bla, anyone else think she was paid off for her backing the sound transit decision…..of course she is on their board…..dah…..

Tressie December 16, 2007

??But, according to the developer, the industrial and somewhat threatening appearance of the neighborhood would discourage visitors.??I visit up there all the time…but I love old and creaking——-why do corporations hate charm? Now I see why none of them ever have/will never hire me! No, the city council will do nothing but rubber-stamp whatever is put in front of them.
why does the city council hate charm? Now I see why none of them ever have/will never elect me!
rich, crenshaw and others are so right——And also, altho I can’t drink beer or wine, Americans love being blotto, so a Brewery district in T-Town should be a no-brainer——
It would be easy to make the Heidelberg cute and harkening, easy I say, and with in a respectable budget. Easy. Being artful is easy. I went to an art show last night in a remodeled/reclaimed space. It was easy.

Crenshaw Sepulveda December 16, 2007

Tressie, what is happening is that we in Tacoma are skipping that stage where the arty and young and creative inhabit a neighborhood and create the neighborhood that the developers want to spruce up for the wealthy. Without that stage where the young and creative prepare an area for gentrification you can’t have a functioning neighborhood for the wealthy. Corporations don’t provide reality, it is the energy of our young and creative people that provide reality. Let the young and creative take over a neighborood for a decade and watch what the developers can do with a neighborhood. 3 million dollar “art lofts” anyone so you can live the “arts lifestyle”? Happens all the time.

CJ December 16, 2007

There speaks the problem. Art becomes more valuable as time goes by and artist are the creators of all that is valuable to our eyes. To build these areas of artistic vision they would need to be available on an artist budget. They are only available to those who can afford to pay the price. This is the cart before the horse again.

rich December 16, 2007

I don’t know, I still believe that the downtown core area needs to be strong, and not really the “Art” area….hate to say it, but the downtown needs to have wealth, corporations etc……sooooooooooooo, what you guys are talking about is happening, just not really in downtown core because it doesn’t belong really there….but look at 6th, proctor, stadium, etc……those are the places where it is more suitable for the art to take place……we don’t really have a big warehouse area where typically art lofts are located that area was taken over by UoW and already developed………..sooo..what does one do? take over the core of downtown with low rent, art lofts….not!!! remember core, strong……the art that belongs downtown is already there, the art museums, the symphony, etc…..

rich December 16, 2007

forgot to mention, while I appreciate art and all that it offers, I think you guys are a little full of yourselves thinking that nothing good can happen to a town without artists…art can be found many places, not always in low income art lofts and lifestyles……there’s plenty of creative developement that can happen……I’m affraid with the council doing what ever they want, and people in tacoma so affraid of the outside “big” developer…..we hence are not going anywhere very quickly…..people don’t have to be suffering in a low income enviroment to have a creative mind…..get over those narrow minds already……with this hotel, it’s a case of the council perhaps leting anything be developed…it doesn’t have to do with the lack of artists in the area…there are plenty of examples of great unique hotels around the country that could be developed there…the city just has to stand up to ALL the developers, just not the outsiders, and demand that they stop the junk……but the council is sooooo much in a hurry to show something for all the mistakes that they continue to make as to the developement of tacoma they are going for anything without a whole lot of thought……CLUELESS……

Mofo from the Hood December 17, 2007

Rich, I’ve said it before. You need a wooden apple crate to stand on and one of those big cardboard cone-shaped megaphones to shout your message from the corner of 9th & Pacific.

rich December 17, 2007

Hopefully the box wouldn’t collapse…….anyways, I was also thinking, for an example (having grown up in the portland area and lived in dt) those of you familar…….Stadium/Proctor/6th remind me of 21st/23rd in Portland in the late 80’s/early 90’s……unfortunately, our only warehouse area is already developed a little more than north of Burnside on the northside of DT PDX….and remember the core back then..up and coming….I lived right on broadway (next to Higgins Rest/Bar for you PDX folks)….and now when I go back, completely changed….many more highrises etc…..but what really seemed to enhance DT away from Lloyd Center shopping was the addition of Pioneer place….here’s an example of a mall being just as close to dt as Tacoma Mall is to our dt….but what a huge success it was putting pioneer place in……and both places survived…..anyways, we all know what Portland is like today……..I’m just saying………..and I know how everyone hates the comparisons to other cities, and how we are “Unique” but the basics are still the same on how to turn a city/town around…….I’m just saying……(of course not everything is the same between where PDX was in the 80’s and where we are today…I do realize that….) afterall we are still 2 different places……frankly, I think T-town could turn out better if we worked on it……..I’m just saying……

Crenshaw Sepulveda December 17, 2007

“I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more” Howard Beale “Network”

I’m not sure if Rich is quite our “mad prophet” but I do see some wisdom in what he says. The trouble is that what he thinks we need is not what we are going to get. Class A office space, big box retail. Downtown may never see it. Portland is cool and many think that Tacoma can style itself after Portland. I don’t think Tacoma has to do that, Tacoma needs to stick with what Tacoma does best, not recently, but in downtown’s history. Pre-mall. Specialty shops, possibly one traditional department store, a good sized movie theater that shows movies on a regular basis. Toss in a 24 hour place to eat and we have a foundation.

CA December 17, 2007

I definitely agree a downtown movie theater would bring lots of people out, and they’d spend even more time and money in nearby restaurants/bars/coffee shops/etc.

Jenyum December 17, 2007

PSP seems like it gets closer and closer to 24 hours all the time.

Think about it, wouldn’t it be perfect for that?

We can dream.

It’s getting pretty busy in the Fawcett/St Helens area at night. People are out at the Grand in droves on weekend nights, then over at the One Heart in droves, as well.

Crenshaw Sepulveda December 17, 2007

That should be the next promotional activity for the city and the downtown association, downtown 24/7. The more legitimate activity we have downtown during all of the hours, the safer it will be.

rich December 17, 2007

in reality, we all really just want the same, maybe slight differences, but we all just want Tacoma to be all that it can be…..ya, ya,…I know…..I’ve heard that saying before too……lol…but seriously…soooooo much potential……….

drizell December 18, 2007

Patience, rich. Even the cities we dream about didn’t happen overnight. They took decades to become what they are today. Portland is no different. Best is to develop a vision of what you want Tacoma to look like in the future and work toward making it a reality.

rich December 18, 2007

Vision…..now that’s the ticket…..

51 comments