Callaghan Expands on Possible Davita Move
Callaghan joined the Davita discussion today with a few questions.
He starts by tracing Davita’s possible move back past Russell to Boeing and sports franchises who threaten to pull up roots and relocate. And then he looks forward and asks, “who’s next?” Which companies are we willing to lose? Does the ability to move determine when policymakers start sending out the incentives? Is it fair to not collect taxes uniformly?
What do you think?
Link to The News Tribune
Previously on Exit133
Filed under: Developments
51 comments
J jamie from thriceallamerican May 8, 2008
Derek, maybe you should try playing the “might leave” card with Exit133…after all, wouldn’t it be nice to have an office with dedicated parking? The city can’t afford to lose Exit133!!!
D Derek staff May 8, 2008
Derek, maybe you should try playing the “might leave” card with Exit133…
If Russell can have its International Financial Services Area and Davita finds itself in an International Renal Services Area, I’m sure there’s an area for us too.
J jamie from thriceallamerican May 8, 2008
International Renal Services Area
Ha. If they call it a Medical and Renal Services Area, then we’ll have MRSA.
D Derek staff May 8, 2008
then we’ll have MRSA.
Never fun and occasionally fatal… wouldn’t want that now.
H Heather May 8, 2008
Unfortunately, I believe that DaVita is simply looking for the cheapest rent around. I’m afraid that Lakewood is in their future.
C crenshaw sepulveda May 8, 2008
Is that Tacoma’s new motto, “at least we are not Lakewood”?
M Mofo from the Hood May 8, 2008
Financial Management in Tacoma Washington: Corporate Strategy
“Tacoma, we like you, but…”
Stop the corporate welfare. It’s demeaning the rest of us.
T Tacoma (A)roma May 8, 2008
As a DaVita employee Heather, Ive got to agree with you on that one.
DaVita is the equivalent of the old lady who gives out pennies for Halloween.
K kc May 8, 2008
It’s not the corporations doing business in Tacoma that make Tacoma so great. It’s not even the gurus of exit133.com that make the site great. It’s the people who spend their lives here. Smart, good for Tacoma businesses will come and stay. Those mostly interested in dollars will go. I say try to work with them, but it may be in our best interest to lure other companies to Tacoma who are ‘a better fit’ for us.
E Erik B. May 8, 2008
The problem is that Tacoma almost forces businesses out of the city with the B&O tax which other Washington cities do not charge.
With an increased mobility, having a geographic tax like this gives companies a cost efficient reason to move out.
N NSHDscott May 8, 2008
If there was enough office space in downtown Tacoma, at least they wouldn’t have that to use as an excuse. This to me is the number one issue facing Tacoma, and the biggest obstacle to future success.
It’s been a decade of no real office-building in Tacoma even while the region continues to grow in population and global cachet, and in the meantime Seattle and friends have been building office space like crazy. Federal Way has bigger plans than Tacoma, for crying out loud! How can we attract new businesses to Tacoma if we can’t even support the expansion of the businesses that are here?!
S Steven May 8, 2008
Erik @ 10
Which Washington cities don’t charge B&O Tax?
K kat May 9, 2008
I think Erik B. knows what he is talking about. Tacoma just changed how they collect the city B&O tax. If all of Davita’s money from all over the country is coming into that location, is Tacoma taking a chunk of that for themselves? Things that make you go hmmm. If other cities (close by)don’t tax that money with B&O, that potentially could be a big savings to Davita without costing them much for the move.
J J. Cote May 9, 2008
Russell and now DaVita are doing the same thing that the Sonics did. Give us incentives to stay or we leave. I say don’t let the door slap you on the ass on the way out of town. It would clear up a lot of office space that some think is desperately needed.
What about the little mom and pop burger stand that’s struggling to survive? Or the barber shop that’s been in town for over 25 years? Who is performing corporate fellatio to keep them from closing their doors and moving out of town? If you are going to make exceptions for one, then make them for all.
Enough of this nonsense. You want the corporate tax structure that exists in Oregon? Go to Oregon! As an RN, I mentioned to the DON at Large Tacoma Hospital that salaries in King County were 3-4 dollars higher than here. Her answer: “Enjoy your commute.” I agreed with her. I still do.
A A-Dub May 9, 2008
Mofo, how is your city demeaning you by trying to convince a large employer to stay in your city? In a global economy, companies can to go to locations that will provide them the greatest competitive edge. Tacoma has to prove companies that it makes sense to be located in this area. One example recommended by Erik B. is to get rid of the city B&O, which is not the same as the State B&O. Most cities don’t have the city B&O tax.
Right now Tacoma is in the cross roads of becoming a vibrant city or going back to a small version of Detroit like in the 80s. It’s about time the city politicians realize this and are actually trying to keep these companies in town.
And for you J. Cote, you can kiss all of you small Mom and Pop shops good bye with that attitude. Who do you think goes to all of the Mom and Pops shops. Go ask them they care if Russell or Davita leave this city.
THIS IS SIMPLE ECONOMICS 101 WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!
A altered chords May 9, 2008
Add safety concerns to DaVita’s list of concerns about Tacoma.
A runnaway construction cherry picker just carreened down 15th and came to a halt on the concrete barrier that separates their building from the freeway ramp to pacific and 15th.
I do not think anyone was hurt in this calamity. Unbeleivable that no cars were waiting at the light at 15th and Pacific during lunchtime.
There were many trees, signs, lights and even a huge traffic light taken out.
M Mofo from the Hood May 9, 2008
A-Dub @4:
At one time I worked for a corporation in Tacoma that decided to move to Fife in the early 80’s. As one of fifty or so employees I had no say in the matter. In fact I was one of a dozen who were left behind to forage for food where I could find it.
Why should I care if Russell or DaVita moves?
The rich help the rich.
That’s high school U.S. History.
C cck May 10, 2008
And the rich pay the bills. That’s reality.
M Mofo from the Hood May 10, 2008
The rich live off the backs of the poor.
Imagine working for minimum wage at a place like Walmart. First your employer makes a profit off your labor. Secondly, you as an employee will likely become a Walmart customer and so your employer makes a second profit off you.
The tax breaks that businesses get are another collateral profit.
How about advertising? Tax deductible propaganda; and basically paid for from the two profits made off the employees.
Then there’s tax breaks for real estate purchases or leases. And tax breaks for business equipment leases, including motor vehicles.
Also the rich have social resources beyond the imagination of the poor. Access to decision makers in government, strategic alliances with other businesses, strategic alliances with various types of financial institutions.
So cck @18, the rich do pay bills, but in reality do the rich pay more than the poor for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
And right here in downtown Tacoma…we’re offering corporate welfare for a financial services company?
Any other nearby business would have to be unconscious not to pursue that opportunity.
A A-Dub May 10, 2008
The idea that the rich live off the backs of the poor is not completely true. It’s the people who work hard, get a good education and make good financial choices are the ones who live off the backs of people who don’t want to work hard or try to get a good education and make stupid financial decisions and sit there and complain about how the rich take advantage of them. People need to stop being victims. If a homeless girl living in a NY subway can get into an Ivy League school, then an average American living in poverty can work hard and get a good education to make a better life for themselves.
On average, do you know who the wealthiest people in this country are? It’s not a circle of a few families who past their wealth from generation to generation. It’s immigrates. Immigrates come to this country with here with an open mind that anyone can succeed in the country. They come with the attitudes that they will study and work harder than anyone else. The result is that they are wealthier than average Americans who sit there and complain how the rich have everything. But average people would like to have a good job with companies who take care of their employees.
In case everyone forgot….Russell is ranked in the top 100 best places to work for in the country and to say who cares is they leave Tacoma needs to wake up.
M Mofo from the Hood May 10, 2008
A-Dub, the U.S. is full of educated derelicts.
I wonder how many first-generation immigrants work for Russell? Excluding the janitorial company.
R rich May 11, 2008
and just what sort of cheese do you want with this “whine”??? get over the victim thing already, it’s not very appealing……think of it this way….though you may hate the large corporations, you need them……So, let’s take Walmart…first off, it’s a business, they did not open the first Walmart to employee people…so get over this they owe me thing, they opened the first Walmart to make money…..secondly, consider this…..if there was no Walmart, the thousands of jobs they provide would not be there meaning less employeed people making money..so while you think Russell or Davita doesn’t matter for Tacoma it does, 2000 jobs right there and tax revenues that provide demand for the local stores products and restaruants which employee people in Tacoma….take away those 2000 high paying jobs, there goes the demand for more restaurants and retail…which means more people looking for jobs in Tacoma because places will have to close due to lack of demand……..so, my suggestion, unlike the standard Tacoma way, you actually have to have an open mind and think bigger…..try to see the big picture at work here…..and get away from this rich vs poor thing……aka “The Victim”……
R RR Anderson May 12, 2008
I dedicate comment NO. 23 (this comment) to Thomas Jefferson’s slaves.
M Mofo from the Hood May 12, 2008
To my knowledge, neither Russell or DaVita has demanded anything from Tacoma.
A confederation outside of the companies is subordinating the private interests of individuals to a process of corporate welfare.
This process may be aimed toward Tacoma’s social and economic progress, but it demeans the citizenry to the status of a sacrificial offering on the altar of private institutions.
I I'm for Change (for tacoma) May 12, 2008
To the question @ 21 – Yes, there are first generation immigrants working @ Russell. I personally know 2, not bad when you consider I know a total of 4 people working there.
And to #19 – No one is forced to shop @ WalMart, even if they do work there. That is a decision the shopper makes, not a command by the rich.
To blame other people for your problems is a cop-out; it won’t help fix your problem. Yes, some people get dealt a better life than others, but once you’re an adult, your life is your fault and is what you make of it. [God, I sound like some motivational poster]
Maybe the complainers need to take a good look at their life, not compare it to others, and realize what they have. There are few truly poor people in Tacoma. I don’t see kids on the streets with no clothes, no food, dying of diseases like dysentery. This country offers free education, food banks, hospital care, shelters, etc.
I I'm for Change (for tacoma) May 12, 2008
Why is it there is an outcry if a homeless shelter talks about closing; there are demands the city do something for its citizens? Contributions are solicited. On the other hand if the city does something to help a large employer stay in the area to keep jobs and workers here, there’s an outcry the city is getting involved in a private matter.
Aren’t both situations dealing with Tacoma citizens and the welfare of where we have chosen to live?
R RR Anderson May 12, 2008
“but once you’re an adult, your life is your fault and is what you make of it.”
I’m for Change is making a faith-based assumption that there is a thing called FREE WILL, which if I am not mistaken has yet to be proven in the secular world of science.
R RR Anderson May 12, 2008
more on FREE WILL:
I’m for Change believes in FREE WILL. Why? BECAUSE SHE HAS NO CHOICE!
M Mofo from the Hood May 12, 2008
Hey Mr. Anderson:
You seen that movie “Free Willy?”
I I'm for Change (for tacoma) May 12, 2008
Mr. Anderson —
I’m not following. Are you offering me 2 pills to choose from? One to take me back home to my simple life and perceived free will and the other one to show me how deep the rabbit hole goes and to see what the matrix is? I promise if you send me a cell phone, show me their coming for me, I’ll go on the ledge and take the leap. Of course, it’s a short building with awnings all around….
A altered chords May 12, 2008
RR is making a faith based assumtion that scientific proof is absolute.
Newton’s theory of gravity is being refined and redefined as we blog. So what was proven is no longer valid?
It seems as though science is a slippery slope just like faith and Tacoma’s attempt to retain large employers.
My genetic code made me write this.
R RR Anderson May 13, 2008
all i’m saying is what would Zeno of Citium do?
C CA May 13, 2008
How can losing a major employer be anything but terrible for a city like Tacoma? The city needs to do whatever it can to keep the employers we have, and recruit more. How does letting Russell or Davita leave, benefit Tacoma?
R RR Anderson May 13, 2008
nobody is saying it wouldn’t be terrible CA.
Just trying to turn AIDS into LemonAIDS!
C CA May 13, 2008
“nobody is saying it wouldn’t be terrible CA.”
Well, I dont know about that RR. Here’s a sample:
“DaVita is the equivalent of the old lady who gives out pennies for Halloween.”
“I say don’t let the door slap you on the ass on the way out of town.”
“The rich live off the backs of the poor.”
Now I am ALL FOR divergent opinions here on exit133. Thats what makes these discussions so engaging and interesting. I love it. However, I guess I just dont understand the anti-business sentiments of some of my fellow Tacomans. I dont see business managers as evil capitalist pigs who want to dominate and use me.
Improving the business climate in Tacoma benefits us all. From Russell execs. to those who run burger joints. On the flipside, Im not a laissez-faire fundementalist either. Capitalism has to be fair for all. From the Russell exec, to the burger joint guy.
A altered chords May 13, 2008
CA – there are many readers who do not comment. They are the “invisible majority” They are staunch advocates of recruiting employers with high paying positions to Tacoma. They’re simply too busy earning a living to type comments like this one.
I need to get back to work now.
K Kristin May 14, 2008
Dear Russell and Davita,
I ask, Where does your corporate responsibility lie? With your employees? Then stay here. With lower prices for land? Then stay here. With tax cuts? Then go elsewhere. Your schemes are transparent. Tread lightly, because we have many more entities who will readily fill your void. Shame on you for playing us so. We are small town. Go to big cities and see about their tax incentives. You can’t. That is why you are here. I call it. And I raise it: for you to perform even better with your tax breaks, low rent, and faithful employees. If you can not. Shame on you.
M Mofo from the Hood May 14, 2008
“Man has two reasons for doing something. The one that sounds good and the real one.”
-J.P. Morgan, investment banker and man of enormous wealth.
A A-Dub May 14, 2008
“A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.”
“Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains.”
-Winston Churchill, British Prime Minister and one of the greatest leaders in history.
M Mofo from the Hood May 14, 2008
The problem with the corporate welfare plan in Tacoma is that it’s a pragmatic approach. It’s concerned with solving the problem expediently. The attitude behind it is that sound principles and truth are unknowable. What matters is taking advantage of an opportunity and enlisting the voice of sophistry to accomplish a specific end that will send civic life in Tacoma into a downward spiral.
R rich May 14, 2008
Dear Kristin,
I ask, Where does your civil responsibility lie? With your fellow citizens? Then stay here. With great visionary ideas for the growth of the city? Then stay here. With tax hikes and narrow vision? Then go elsewhere. Your schemes are transparent. Tread lightly, because we have many more optimistic citizens who will readily fill your void. Shame on you for playing us so. We are a growing city. Go to eastern washington and see about their small town views. You can’t. That is why you are here. I call it. And I raise it: for you to perform, not as a selfish person, but as someone who cares for the growth of the great city of Tacoma. If you can not. Shame on youA altered chords May 14, 2008
It seems to me that the city is simply competing with other cities for the retention of these 2 entities and at the same time, the city is competing to attract new business.
Is the fact that the city is in competition really that surprising to the readership here.
You see kids, in this global economy everyone competes.
The city is not offering “corporate welfare” it is analyzing the impact of giving away a little tax revenue in order to gain much more tax revenue.
These people have calculators and computers and everything. Many of them have even read books and are able to think their way out of a wet paper bag.
A A-Dub May 14, 2008
Mofo,
We are talking in circles here; but you are absolutely wrong with your conclusion that corporate welfare will lead to a downward spiral of Tacoma civic life style. It will actually boost civic life in Tacoma. If you look anywhere in the world, there is an enormous difference in standards of living in areas that are corporate/business friendly versus not.
Also, do a little research and look at how much Russell or Davita gives back to the community.
K Kristin May 14, 2008
A-Dub at 43:
Yeah, look at Hong Kong, no problems for the civilians in China there. Corporate interest is not social. Come on.
Rich at 41:
For what its worth I am saying its rude and threatening to “around the bush” ask a city to lower taxes for your Private corporation with the unimplied threat that you will move elsewhere if the City does not accomodate and then leave the city with a void, not to mention the employee relocation (human relocation) – unless of course the wages are less in the Corporation’s new city – then it would be okay and economically healthy to fire everyone here and go with the new folks in the new city where the standard of wages is lower and shit, save even more money.
M Mofo from the Hood May 14, 2008
A.C. @42:
As if globalization is a good thing. I’m not ready to give up my personal sovereinty. On the world scale, I shudder to think if the U.S. were to ever lose its political sovereinty.
Enough with the idea that an organic or corporate entity has more civic value, or that it should have rights that supercede the individual. Nyet to totalitarianism.
A-Dub @43:
When the idea and practice of sound principles and truth disintegrates then so does the standard of living in any society.
A A-Dub May 14, 2008
Kristin,
Here is a history lesson. China to control of Hong Kong in 1997. Hong Kong’s success has nothing to do with China. But, China track record on human rights does have something to do with being anti-capitalist. Before 1997, Hong Kong was independent of China under British rule and flourished under free markets. However, I am glad you mentioned it because this is a perfect example of the difference between corporate friendly governments versus non-friendly governments. Currently, China is becoming more corporate friendly, hence a billion people are moving up from peasants to middle and upper class. Funny how that works.
Also, Russell did not ask the City of Tacoma for anything. They only stated that they are looking into the idea of relocating to another city. City of Tacoma independently decided to create a package deal for them to stay. At least there are some people working for the city who understand economics.
A A-Dub May 15, 2008
Mofo,
Your quote sounds good, but you need to get an understanding of sound principles and the truth before you conclude on what decreases standard of living.
If it was up to you, there would be at 2,500 (between Russell and Davita) people looking for new jobs, which would snow ball into small businesses around the area making less money leading to more layoffs. Would you agree that this would cause the standard of living to go down?
For the sake of everyone’s standard of living, please don’t run for office!
K Kristin May 15, 2008
A-Dub:
Lets back up. I think we are all on the same page here.
1. I majored in history at WWU, so I know about Hong Kong and who Winston Churchill is.
2. I appreciate and respect Russell and Davita. I remember when Pacific Avenue was full of prostitutes and no business save for Elmo’s adult book store.
3. My fears are those of Callahan’s: at what point does a corporation become large enough to dictate legislation in taxes.
4. I know business is good for standard of living but disagree it has the furtherance of social health at its core (generically speaking). And I do not think it should have social mores at its core. I think it should be socially responsible.
5. I know the City and the State have room to move when it comes to tax and business. I know we have work to do to keep and attract business. I know we have smart people who work for the city and state to make sure we are competitive and attract business.
6. I feel threatened by Goliath (the large corporation) because he can and I as an individual can not. I am protected by my vote. Goliath has more power and we just want to make sure he uses it fairly.
7. I believe that competitive business is healthy and fruitful, socially and economically.
This argument is not personal man vs. man, its man vs state. Let’s not make it personal in this forum.
C CA May 15, 2008
Essentially there are two options:
1) Tacoma tells Russell and Davita to shove it, we’re not helping you out. These two employers leave Tacoma and the city loses: thousands of mid to high level paying jobs, tax revenue collected over many years as these two companies remain downtown, and all the business that is created downtown from employees eating out for lunch or shopping, etc…
2) The city works with these employers to come to an equitable agreement that benefits both the employers and the city in general. Tax breaks, infrastructure upgrades, other incentives, that improves the business climate for ALL businesses in Tacoma, and provides US ALL with better employment opportunities.
I’d just like for Callaghan, or anyone else, to EXPAND on what exactly it is they fear? What would be the worst case scenario if Tacoma continues to work with large employers to entice them to stay here? Specifically what are you afraid of?
K Kristin May 15, 2008
I am afraid that the corporation is becoming the ruling elite, the “one” who dominates legislation. While Russell and Davita are respectable entities, its not in their “Definition” or “company plan” to stay here or support Tacoma per say (I am guessing). Which is fine. But we (Tacoma) need to protect ourself as an entity, the way the corporation does. Put it in writing. Why should Tacoma budget its tax cuts otherwise. Our tax legislation/cuts to Russell and Davita, are subjective, hoping for steadfastness. No business person would ever sign off on a deal without protecting its own interest (Tacoma’s). It is a business deal right? Tacoma has obligations to its citizens. Lets put it in writing with terms that we all agree to and vote on.
R rich May 15, 2008
Why are people so affraid of growth? Aren’t you proud of this little city called T-Town? Why do you think we will loose our soul if we bend alittle to keep two of the biggest employers in town? Do people really understand that just by having Russell headquartered in Tacoma is Huge? Do people really understand the role Russell plays in the world financial markets? Russell is just not a typical company, it really isn’t. We have been very fortunate to have Russell call Tacoma their home for so many years. And what has Tacoma done in return, to grow the city, to make the city more attractive for other companies or small businesses? Nothing……. Tacoma and the city government has sat on their fat *sses and completely disregarded any sense of vision for the future of Tacoma. And they wonder why Russell is thinking of leaving???? Give me a break….our city government from the mayor right down to the council has FAILED our great little city……..so good on Russell for taking a stand and getting the city govenment off their fat *sses and thinking a little that hey, gee, you think we ought to think about our future a little……if this is what it takes to finally point Tacoma in the right direction I’m all for it……….frankly I think we ought to recall every city government position…..look at Portland, a Mayor and 4 council members…dont’ you think we have too many council members for such a small city as Tacoma?