Crosscut Writes About Russell

grubedoo March 6, 2008

I’d like to kick that John McLaughlin guys ass into the sound.

michael g. March 6, 2008

I’d like to thank John McLaughlin for telling the truth. Anybody who thinks the smell (and to a lesser extent, the sight) of the pulp mill doesn’t significantly limit Tacoma’s growth potential and quality of life is delusional. The aroma is diminished, but when the wind’s blowing the wrong way or not at all, it’s very much still around.

grubedoo March 6, 2008

I grew up in a WI town with 5 paper miles in a 15 mile radius. Talk about aroma — it didn’t matter what way the wind was blowing. Tacoma’s single mill barely registers on the stink-o-meter. The Spanish steps smell considerably worse every day than the mill does every once in a while.

As my dad says, “It’s the smell of money” (He works at a paper mill).

Jake March 6, 2008

Isn’t much of the aroma that we occasionally have now caused by low tide ?

michael g. March 6, 2008

I only smell it when the pulp mill emissions are blowing toward me. The Puget Sound smell is a lot milder and more pleasant.

BTW, I should have said that I don’t agree with McLaughlin’s implication that Tacoma’s a cultural wasteland!

Droid16 March 6, 2008

Pretty much. And anyone who wants to have the pleasure of living by any large body of water is going to get a nose full on a occasion. Take the wonderful walk along the Ruston waterfront on a low tide, hot day and it will make scents to you. Any talk of a Tacoma smell these days should be about the appreciation of the South Puget Sound.

Droid16 March 6, 2008

To be fair, I live close to the pulp mill and have had an occasional unpleasant experience, but only when driving by and very infrequently.

NSHDscott March 6, 2008

I thought it was pretty fair … more fair than usual for a Seattle publication, at least. I said so in my comment. It’s certainly true that urban-minded people like John who like a bustling nightlife won’t be happy in Tacoma. It’s also true that there are plenty of other young professionals, myself included (a few years ago), who don’t care about nightlife and just want an affordable, enjoyable quality of life.

I took the opportunity to remind everyone that the reason we’re having to spend billions on transportation solutions is because Seattle has all the good jobs, but not all the good workers, and if Russell moves north and causes a further imbalance, it’s bad for the whole region.

michael g. March 6, 2008

One more thing: my strong suspicion is that to the extent it’s the “smell of money,” it’s generating money for one industry/set of workers at the expense of many others that won’t materialize or will materialize to a lesser extent than they would but for the presence of the mill. I appreciate the argument about “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush” and all that, but it’s hard for me to imagine that the mill is good for the long-term health of the city’s economy.

Erik B. March 6, 2008

The gist of it… Well… you can read it for yourself, and put your highlights in the comments, but any article that has to talk about the smell of the paper mill raises our eyebrows.

Its a subtle Seattle “South 5“ish sales pitch for Russell to move from Tacoma to Seattle. The author(s) bend over backwards to select their content to portray Tacoma badly and Seattle well. How about an article “Is Microsoft too big for Seattle?”

Yes Seattle, we know you are there with your allies to hijack any hint of success Tacoma may acquire.

Squid March 6, 2008

NSHDscott has a good point that I have been cogitating on for awhile now. You’d THINK that Seattle would want to support Tacoma as part of a solution to a whole host of regional issues, traffic/transport being one of them. Due to geography Seattle is darn close to being fully-built out. They ought to be supporting development in other metro areas where there is lots of space still for increasing commercial density. Instead they seem to be locked into the mode of grabbing every marble in the game (see creation of mega-port).

If they were really being smart, they’d being moving mountains to get a full schedule of heavy rail throughout the day and into the night and encouraging businesses to come to the region and locating in places like Everett and Tacoma that could have lots of space for in-fill. Rather than taking a leadership role in regional solutions, they continue to pursue policies of short-sighted self-interest.

Seattle should be telling Russell that the best thing for them to do is stay in Tacoma. Part of being a big brother is protecting your little brother when he needs it.

Franzy March 6, 2008

In a recent discussion with a long-time Russell employee, he told me “Russell will do what’s best for the company with little regard for what’s best for Tacoma.” Sad, but understandable from a business perspective. It worries me, as a property owner who bought when prices soared, that Tacoma will never really recover if it loses Russell.

RR Anderson March 6, 2008

from the article:
“Living in Tacoma absolutely had something to do with my decision to leave Russell,” he says. At 25 now, McLaughlin found Tacoma’s cultural scene sorely lacking. “It was pretty boring,” he says. “There was nothing down there.”

rr commentary: what a douche

RR Anderson March 6, 2008

though T-town was pretty skunky this morning.

Article reminds me of F.U.D. mongering worthy of microsoft.

anyhow I wouldn’t trust my retirement money with them either. Probably better off stuffing your mattress or buying gold fillings (what with the collapse of the US economy looming and all).

Stock up on crossbow darts people!

Republican (By Default) March 6, 2008

Hey grubedoo, you didn’t happen to grow up in Central WI? Wausau or Stevens Point?

Part of what attracted me to Tacoma was the similarities to my hometown (other than the smell). Hard-working people with strong family values. Unpretentious. Quite a contrast to what Seattle has become. I sincerely hope Tacoma doesn’t go that direction.

altered chords March 6, 2008

Re: John McLaughlin. How much nightlife did he need? The dude started work at 4:00 am? Sounds like bed by at least 10:00.

Would have been good to hear feedback from an employee that actually felt clever becuase he/she was earning a good living at Russell in Tacoma and enjoying a smaller mortgage payment vs. peers in Seattle.

I’ve only been here 5 years and I’ve witnessed great thinks happening here. As the population grows, the cultural scene improves. I think a real jazz venue would be good but I still think the population is too thin to support one just yet. I am convinced that it will happen eventually. When I came here there was no Pacific Grill, Seafood Grill or Stadium Bistro and now they’re here. So, it gets better and better.

Re: odor. It has troubled me about 3 times in 5 years. I can deal with that and I’m surprised that there are people out there that are deeply disturbed by either it’s frequency or it’s intensity. But I grew up in Philly. A big city w/ lots of cultural nightlife. We were about 7 miles from chemical processor Rohm and Haas. It made breathing difficult for us children some days. Also lived in Orange County, CA for 20 some years. On breezeless summer days the air was a brownish orange and made my eyes burn. Seems like people still flock there anyway.

The last thing this city needs to do is make employers leave because they don’t smell good 100% of the time. Gross polluters – different story but odor .5% of the time? C’mon. Buy a scented candle.

Republican (By Default) March 6, 2008

I hate to be the wet blanket for you all (but I do it anyway). Anytime Tacoma tries to compete with Seattle at their game, we will lose. If we try to be a cultural or financial center our efforts will fail. Seattle has sucked the resources and opportunity for those things (and others) out of the entire region. Fighting it is a losing battle.

Successful artists require sales. Sales require customers. Customers go to Seattle. I know this because I worked in Pioneer Square for a year. Without much effort I could probably find one block in Seattle that has more ‘cultural attractions’ than all of Tacoma combined.

It’s good to see these attractions growing in Tacoma, but they will never be able to compete with our neighbor to the North. I’d venture to guess that there are some ‘McLaughlins’ posting comments here who will someday move to Seattle because they want what Tacoma will never really have.

If you want Tacoma to become something noticeable (for something other than crime or odor) it might be good to set more realistic goals. Tacoma has a lot more potential than what you’ll find downtown. You’ll see proof of that if you just lift your eyes and look at the Port. Gritty though it may be, it’s a success.

Would you like to know of another potential powerhouse of economic and employment strength in Tacoma? Manufacturing. Maybe we should stop working against it.

NSHDscott March 6, 2008

Seattle should be telling Russell that the best thing for them to do is stay in Tacoma. Part of being a big brother is protecting your little brother when he needs it.

I love that quote! Good one Squid.

Sassy McButterpants March 6, 2008

Scented Candle! Love it!

No one wants to see Russell go, but it’s Tacoma’s fault for putting all it’s eggs in one Corporate basket. It’s like we’re hooked on The Russell Crack…

Or like we’re eating a diet consisting entirely of Protein! We need veggies. And carbs!

Squid March 6, 2008

Sad to say, to date Seattle has been the kind of big brother who kicks your butt when the parents are gone and turns his back when the bullies gang up on you.

Droid16 March 6, 2008

Seattle has been the big brother that hits on your prom date.

Sassy McButterpants March 6, 2008

Seattle has been the big brother that hits on your prom date.

Yeah! Then knocks her up and leaves you to clean up the mess. tsk

grubedoo March 6, 2008

RBD @15

Wisconsin Rapids to be exact. I hope you’re not from Wausau or Stevens Point b/c then we’d have to be mortal enemies — unless, that is, we basked together in the brotherhood of cheeseheadedness.

Jenyum March 6, 2008

I rarely smell the mill but this morning was especially bad. Bad enough to set off a cough and make my eyes water.

I think it’s got something to do with the fog that covered the area this morning. I’m surprised that they would run it on a day like today, I thought there were regulations in place to prevent that. I’m trying to track down the right people to talk to at Simpson Tacoma Kraft, but it looks like they’re already gone for the day.

Squid March 6, 2008

Sassy McButterpants, you have a one track mind. Not that it’s a bad thing …

grubedoo March 6, 2008

I’ve heard that the cancer rate in my home town is considerably higher than the national average. No thanks in part to the paper mills. But hey, what’s a little cancer in order for some post-its and fancy stationery?

Also, it is not advised to eat fish from the river where the mills are located. I’m sure the Tacoma mill is different though.

Sounds like those Port Townsend residents are a bunch of pussies — had to move to Alaska … seriously?

CA March 6, 2008

“Without much effort I could probably find one block in Seattle that has more ‘cultural attractions’ than all of Tacoma combined.”

That would be a very large block indeed. I dont think any of us truly want to beat Seattle at its game, we just object to ignoramuses making statements about Tacoma like “theres nothing to do down there and it stinks.”

Republican (By Default) March 6, 2008

grubedoo @ 23 – Well… Stevens Point but I was born in Rapids and most of my extended family is there or in Rudolph (Mom grew up on a farm there). My grandfather was Wood County Sheriff for a while. So I’m not totally an enemy.

My family owned the A&W on Clark Street in Stevens Point for 50 years. I graduated from SPASH (of course).

But I have to say, when it comes to odor, Rapids beat Point, hands down.

Crenshaw Sepulveda March 6, 2008

I really can’t find fault in anything in the article. All it is saying is that most people that work in the financial industry prefer the glitz of Seattle or other big cities instead of the abundant good qualities of Tacoma, which she should be promoting.

In my view Tacoma should be on the way to being a great smaller city with attractions that are significantly different than Seattle’s. We should make sure our higher education institutions are top notch, but not so we can draw potential Russell employees, but rather to make Tacoma the community she has the potential to be. If we retain our college students then we win the game. Make Tacoma the kind of place a recent college graduate wants to live in and Tacoma’s future is bright, regardless of what Russell does.

The best and the brightest in the financial industry may crave the life in Seattle, but who’s to say that Tacoma will not come up with the next big thing in finances or other industries from within her own midst. It is more important for Tacoma to know who she is than it is for Tacoma to worry about saving Russell. Tacoma has more to offer than being Russell’s bitch.

Sassy McButterpants March 6, 2008

Tacoma has more to offer than being Russell’s bitch.

SHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Crenshaw!!!

They might HEAR YOU!

jamie from thriceallamerican March 6, 2008

Crenshaw is right on… I’m not saying I want Russell to leave, but if look at the people involved in the blogging community here who are making a big difference at changing the prevailing mood around town, we’re looking at people who graduated from PLU, UPS, and now increasingly UWT who decided to stick around. And it’s not about clubs, restaurants, grocery stores, it’s about vibrant communities (to which, granted, those amenities can help to nurture). I think in a lot of ways we’re moving in the right direction. Some people won’t like it here, but yeah, once we can get people to stick around in large numbers after college, we’re going to see even more young people starting up businesses, making their neighborhoods neighborhoods instead of just the place they live, contributing to the culture, etc. Russell leaving wouldn’t be the end of the road for Tacoma…it might hurt for a while, but we’d recover.

Nick March 6, 2008

@ Crenshaw/Jamie

I definitely agree with both of you. I was brought to Tacoma because of UPS and I have to say when I first got here I had no intention of sticking around after finishing school. Coming from the SF bay area, Tacoma seemed like the Oakland of the northwest (perhaps a bit more gritty ;-)). Then over those 5 years (yes I know, I said 5) Tacoma really pulled a 180 and by graduation I had fallen in love with this city.

Every year new developments in our communities, infrastructure, and local economy continue to improve, making Tacoma a more attractive place to live. This is why I stayed, there is so much unrealized potential and I wanted to be a part of the rebirth Tacoma is experiencing.

But back on the Russell topic, I actually find it unlikely they will move. We now have two major things working in our favor – SB-6626 and the fact that Russell is already here. The benefits of the bill are obvious, but we can’t underestimate the value of the latter. Moving a corporate headquarters for a business as large as Russell is an expensive process. There are the obvious costs of moving infrastructure to the new location, but there are some less obvious ones as well.

Add up the opportunity cost of lost man hours from all the employees that leave because of the move, the costs of HR man-hours spent filling the vacated positions, the administrative costs of changing cities/counties adjusting policies to different regional laws, taxes, and regulations. Productivity would undoubtedly take a hit, and security would likely be an issue as well. I’m sure there are plenty of things I haven’t thought of that would also prove expensive.

Now, if we account for all these costs and see how they add up for a move a few blocks away to a move 20/30/40 miles away, clearly it would be much cheaper to stay within Tacoma.

I’m not saying Tacoma shouldn’t do everything it can to keep Russell here, but I do think we have some advantages that Russell’s alternatives can’t compete with.

CA March 6, 2008

But dont you all agree that having a decent pool of good paying jobs in town will help us keep even more of those UPS/PLU/UWT graduates. I just dont see how losing an international investment firm could be annything but bad for a city like Tacoma, and I fully support the city council in their efforts to woo Russell.

Losing Russell wont meant that Tacoma evaporates into thin air. But it’s definitely a step in the wrong direction.

Sassy McButterpants March 6, 2008

Of course we don’t want to lose Russell. That goes without saying. All those cute executive types with nice haircuts and nice clothes eating out on the lunch hour. Grrrrr…

Tacoma just needs to diversify our business community. That should be the conversation. Let’s stop talking about douchebags in Seattle not understanding our city. Let’s talk about how to create a more appealing environment for new businesses to start up here, grow here, and maybe even relocate here. That’s the more interesting conversation.

CA March 6, 2008

Agreed!

Nick March 7, 2008

Agreed as well!

I just keep thinking, why does Tacoma not go to these lengths to attract new businesses? Why must we always be reactive, struggling to keep existing employers within city limits. We should be proactive, working to ~~attract~~ new businesses to this city.

Crenshaw Sepulveda March 7, 2008

Saving Private Russell

It is odd that the Russell company is unable to characterize the City of Tacoma in a way that will attract the people they wish to recruit. They have the very best talent putting together their recruitment packages and advertising. The best they can do is to make Seattle a part of Tacoma.

I don’t want to lose Russell. I wish the city did more to retain the likes of Russell, and attract more large employers, before Russell started thinking about leaving. All those years the Russell building stood on A Street and things around there are pretty much the same. New things come, new things go, but it is mostly that same over the last decade or so. I think Russell took a chance on Tacoma when it built the new headquarters. Tacoma did not run with it.

The Russell company sits in the 98402 zip code. This is, by far the poorest zip code of any in Tacoma. The demographics of 98402 are absolutely horrifying. If 98402 at least had the demographics of 98404 (McKinley) or 98405 (Hilltop) it would have twice the household income and half the poverty rate. Downtown is a demographic dead zone. The quick fix for downtown is to get more people of higher incomes into downtown, and I’m not talking 800 buck a month 400 square foot studios. We need enough housing in downtown to attract the young workers of downtown to make it their home and still have incomes left over to support the local businesses. If the developers will not do it, the city will have to pick up the ball, one way or another.

I can tell you that the waves of urban renewal over the decades has destroyed thousands of units of housing in the zip code. Downtown once thrived before the mall because it had a residential base. It was not the wealthy residents living downtown, it was the waitresses, shoe salesmen, and ribbon clerks. Bar tenders, and bowling shoe renters. If downtown is going to stop being a dead zone we have to have reasonably priced housing. The problem is the old housing is gone and it is way expensive to make new housing.

The Sepulveda plan for downtown would be to take the State’s money and put together a package of housing projects of a co-op nature. The 700k will not go far but it would provide enough money to launch some co-op buildings that people could buy into at a reasonable rate. The key is buy, so the money comes from the buyers. The city could contribute any lots they hold downtown for the project. The co-ops would be something of a housing trust so they will remain reasonably priced for all time. Some might say this will draw away the customers from the higher priced condos. The high priced condos have their buyers and they are different. What the lower priced co-op will provide is more residents for downtown, more non-poor residents, and thus improve the demographics of downtown. The higher priced condos will then have the demographics to justify their sales prices. Win Win for everyone.

jamie from thriceallamerican March 7, 2008

I want to hear the words “Sepulveda plan” used at a City Council meeting. That would be awesome.

JP March 7, 2008

I start at Russell in a few weeks. I am coming from out of state and I had no preconceived biases against Tacoma other than having heard people say “tacoma aroma” before. When I came on my recruiting trip I was a little freaked out by looking out the window of Hotel Murano on a Friday night and seeing a ghost town. I’m a family man, so I am not looking for an amazing night life really, but Tacoma didn’t look like a healthy city. It is a really pretty city and I hope I end up loving it, but I felt a little worried after my trip.

I am debating living in Tacoma, but I am pretty sure I am going to end up commuting from olympia. (Though if Russell moves to Seattle I will be screwed…)

Great site by the way. I appreciate having a resource like this, and I have read a lot of your blogs as well :)

jamie from thriceallamerican March 7, 2008

Olympia, seriously?

You should have left your hotel on said Friday night. The Murano is in a pretty dead area of town. But if you’d gone south, there are several restaurants and bars around UWT. And if you’d gone north, the 7th & Pacific area also has a number of lively places.

Also, maybe you don’t want to live downtown… I mean, yes, as Crenshaw says, we need young creative people downtown, but you could live in the St. Helens or Stadium Districts, which are close to downtown and have their own burgeoning restaurant culture, or along Sixth Ave “restaurant row”, or in the Proctor District, which is maybe most family oriented (but slightly more stuffy, imho). And we’ve got great local music, theater, etc., going on. Regardless, you should be able to find stuff going on on Friday nights. It’s just that the Murano is in a, um, transitional neighborhood as far as restaurants, residential, etc., go.

Unless you’re working for the government, I have a hard time seeing what Oly offers over Tacoma. Ok, they do have a killer farmers market, but other than that…

Welcome to Tacoma, JP! (Hey, those are my initials, too…)

Squid March 7, 2008

JP: I urge you to think twice about moving to Olympia. Tacoma’s family-friendly neighborhoods are its best asset and you’ll save yourself no end of hassles with commuting issues, including that of being screwed if the company moves to Seattle.

Welcome to Tacoma. We’re happy to have you here.

DavidS March 7, 2008

Though I’m a Tacoman, I know there are people who have decided to live elsewhere even though they work here. While some do live as far south as Oly/Lacey, it seems like the commute kills them. It seems like Gig Harbor & old Puyallup are couple of popular choices on the family-friendly, short-commute, no-nightlife list.

Seems like the question for those of us here is “If I were banned from T-town, but still worked here, where would I live?” I’d probably be in Puyallup or maybe Sumner to catch the Sounder, but that’s because I’m not a commuter.

CA March 7, 2008

The prevailing wisdom amongst many seems to be that if your nightlife isnt in Seattle, then it’s no good. Well Im a 20-something who, along with my friends, find plenty to do every Thurs/Fri/Sat night here in Tacoma. Much progress has been made in Tacoma, especially in the last 3-5 years, that makes a trip to Seattle just a waste of 3 and a half dollar gas. If your experience of Tacoma nightlife is what you can see from the twentieth story of the Hotel Murano, then you’re missing out on a lot.

JP March 7, 2008

“If your experience of Tacoma nightlife is what you can see from the twentieth story of the Hotel Murano, then you’re missing out on a lot.”

I didn’t sit in my hotel all night and I was there for three days. Sorry if I was too metaphorical in my description of being surprised by how few people were out and about…

D. Voelpel March 7, 2008

So, J.P.:
I’ve heard from other recent hires at Russell that their HR people have told them the company will move its corporate HQ to Seattle and relocate the bulk of its Tacoma workforce to a Lacey location. These folks told me the HR people wanted them to know about it to help them make home selection decisions. Didn’t they tell you the same thing?

grubedoo March 7, 2008

Tacoma nightlife is great. Friday nights I usually buy a couple 40s to drink while chill’n on the Spanish steps with my posse. Then we may tag a abandoned building or two. I usually crash in some brush covered area surrounding one of WHRs parking lots. Saturday is filled with breaking into cars down’n some more 40s and then maybe a little hooch and some meth. About 6ish I’ll take a piss on the Link and spend the night cozied up in a warm cell. Who says there’s nutt’n to do in the grit city?

grubedoo March 7, 2008

Who am I kidding. I’m usually in bed by 9 after giving my 4 month old a bath and checking exit133.

Jenyum March 7, 2008

Attacked the Aroma issue today, I hope it’s ok to say go over to Tacomamama and read about it if you’d like to know who to call and complain to about it.

JP: I hope you take another look. You won’t be in the Murano with your family, silly. Check out the 6th Avenue/Proctor area, lots of life, cute houses, and good schools.

UPSpatrick March 7, 2008

If they go, they go. Tacoma now has momentum on its side. Success for this city will be based on many more small businesses, not trying to keep a large firm that in many ways has outgrown its hometown. At UPS, we bring in job candidates and they fall in love with this place, and we can walk them from Murano to TwoKoi or hop over to Asado or Stadium Bistro. When I arrived in 1995 it was still prostitutes on Pacific Av. Now we can steal faculty and staff from some of the best institutions in the country. Amazing. I feel so lucky, and bless you all for your passion in moving this town upward and onward. See you on McKinley!

Oh, and we should have an Exit133 bbq this summer.

CA March 7, 2008

Wow. I hope what Voelpel heard is wrong.

JP March 7, 2008

Voelpel: “Didn’t they tell you the same thing?”

Nope. I am going to be making some phone calls though. I was left with the impression that there were no final plans, but what do I know.

grubedoo:
Oh man, it is worse than I thought. That sounds like a typical night for my 9 month old. My 3 year old would be bored silly.

Jenyum:
Look, I am not going to be “the guy who thought he could tell what the night life of the entire city was by looking out the hotel window.” :)

I promise, I really did get out of the hotel! I simplified things a bit in my comment.

CA March 7, 2008

No worries JP. I did quote you in my response, but I wasnt really targeting you. My animus was for the guy in the Crosscut article, not you. My apologies, and welcome to town bro.

Republican (By Default) March 8, 2008

JP – There are some great neighborhoods ourside of ones mentioned in these comments. This site focuses on downtown so it’s hard to get a feel for the whole city if your exposure is limited to exit133. That’s not a bad thing, just a reality.

I live near Point Defiance Park and it’s great. Houses range in size from small to medium and prices are still pretty good. It’s quiet and safe. There are other areas (some are now their own towns) like University Place, Steilaicoom, Fircrest and Brown’s Point. All are or were once part of Tacoma proper. There’s also Sumner, Puyallup and other out-lying areas as well. A good realtor and a couple of Web sites will tell you which neighborhoods to avoid.

I’m sure it’s considered heresy to mention this on this site but you can also cross the county line and look at Federal Way just to the North. I lived there for a while. Traffic is bad and prices are high, but other than that it’s nice.

The city has a lot to offer, but currently the downtown is dead (or maybe just in a coma but still on life support).

grubedoo March 8, 2008

JP

I’ve only been in Tacoma a year and a half and I love it. It IS rough around the edges but still a great city. It’s a place where you can participate and actually make a difference. There is a lot of movement and potential — like it’s on the cusp of a wave. It’s a big town that feels like a small one. The “life” of the city may not be obvious at first glance but it IS alive. You just have to spend a little time and energy to find it.

As a young 30-something with a new family I’d recommend it as a city to live in and grow with — with one caveat — it desperately needs a Packers bar.

Amen.

CA March 8, 2008

Yep, downtown is dead. Just ask anyone who attends UW Tacoma, goes to the museums, or frequents any one of the many bars, restaurants, or coffee shops downtown. Nothing down there. Move along now…..

Crenshaw Sepulveda March 9, 2008

CA, I think you are talking about the New downtown, or the museum university area. It is swell, but it is a dead zone away from the rest of downtown. It is the dead zones that are killing downtown. We have a downtown that is a collection of islands. Frankly, when the museums are closed, that side of Pacific is pretty much a dead zone as well. Some outdoor attractions there during the off hours, but you need to wander over there to see them and they are mostly not visible from the west side of Pacific. People are reluctant to wander into areas where there might not be other people at night, or the wrong kinds of people.

Roger March 9, 2008

It seems odd to me that the two people named in the article (John McLaughlin and Iveen) and the author of the piece are all employees of Moss Adams’ consulting unit. Especially given that the article neglects to mention McLaughlin’s current job (I only know this because I worked with him at Russell). Seems like a pretty thin slice to examine, and certainly tilted to people who left Russell, instead of also examining what kept those who remain at Russell living in Tacoma (which, frankly, make up the majority of the workforce).

CA March 9, 2008

Just this weekend the Pantages Theater hosted Tacoma Opera’s presentation of The Barber of Seville. I didn’t go but I’m assuming it was well attended, as this is perhaps one of the most popular operas the world over. Furthermore, I certainly wouldnt call north downtown a dead zone, considering the growing nightlife and culinary scene taking root there, and also being home to Exit133 World Headquarters. Make no mistake; downtown has has plenty of problems and has much room to improve, but making a blanket statement like downntown is dead is just silly hyperbole.

I hear Paul is dead as well…….

beerBoy March 10, 2008

When I chose to live here four years ago, my first choice was Olympia but I found the large population of “trustafarians” roaming downtown rather off-putting. I own my own business and also found the government even less friendly towards business in Olympia than it is here in Tacoma.

Tacoma city needs to get its ducks in a row. The Economic Development Dept. is spending a lot of time and money to attract small business and the arts – meanwhile, Tax & Licensing is busily trying to squeeze blood from all the new growth turnips.

Since I’ve been here I have seen several other artists/businesses come and go. Tacoma has to work harder at retaining those they attract.

And yes, J.P. downtown Tacoma is dead most of the time.

Nick March 10, 2008

Also don’t forget why downtown seems so dead. It has only been fairly recently that investment has again started to pour into this area after so much disinvestment (which can be traced all the way back to the 60’s).

The regional population has finally reached a point at which it can sustain the growth of downtown. It has been dead for a very long time, and even now it still takes a certain kind of person to see the value it will have 5-10 years from now.

I’d like to think that with so many eyes at Russell trained to find undervalued investments, that they will see the one they are living and/or working within every day. The city’s image is much more beaten down than its underlying value, which is quickly being realized. Time will tell, but I have my fingers crossed.

Also, it is true the developing pockets downtown are very isolated right now, but that will change. Just like any type of organic growth, it doesn’t all happen everywhere at once. It starts in a few separate spots and slowly grows together, filling in the gaps.

NSHDscott March 10, 2008

Matador in north downtown is hoppin’ in the late hours most days, especially on the weekend. I’m not really into the young-hotties and loud-music scene any more, but I know there are restaurants and bars in most Tacoma neighborhoods that fit this bill. I was at the Parkway on Friday night and had to wait for a seat.

I think the problem is that these places are scattered — there isn’t really a whole neighborhood that’s all hopping at one time, like I understand Seattle’s Pioneer Square is. The 6th Ave strip is the closest to this description. Of course, you hear about all the crime problems around Pioneer Square at night and wonder if having a whole neighborhood hopping is really such a good thing.

Hey Dan @ 47, did you really hear that or were you just trying to sneak a little inside info out of the new guy? Completely ditching Tacoma for Seattle AND Lacey would be giving one big middle finger to Tacoma (and all their employees who live here).

Hey Patrick @ 51, glad to hear you saying those things. I took one of your poli-sci classes in the late ’90s and was so impressed, I gotta give your opinions a little extra weight.

Hey JP, welcome to Tacoma! We could use a few more like you in my neighborhood, the North Slope Historic District. How do you feel about big, beautiful, old houses?

Davest March 10, 2008

I find it interesting that such a long article was based on nothing but a re-telling of this site’s conversation. If I was his editor, I’d be looking for some more independent creativity. I did this kind of article in 8th grade: “He said, She said”

JP March 10, 2008

“However, the fact that the new recruit wasn’t told to mind his home selection decision suggests otherwise, unless there’s another reason he’s considering locating in Olympia, which is closer to Lacey.”

Sorry to take away from the fun speculation, but my leaning towards Olympia has nothing at all to do with Russell locations. I have family there and there are a lot of other things I like about the area.

I feel like I need a disclaimer now.

“My views are mine alone and do not represent the views of the company that I don’t even work for yet, who hopefully doesn’t mind me accidentally walking up and hitting a hornets’ nest with a stick.”

NSHDscott March 10, 2008

Love that Crosscut only published the part of my comment that complimented their balanced reporting, then quotes Dbreneman’s kudos for my excellent gloss of the subject, without actually quoting my gloss of who will and won’t like Tacoma and why!

Then it ignores my condemnation of Seattle as the de facto jobs epicenter, which is the cause of all this horrible traffic, leading us to throw billions of dollars to build workarounds (transit) instead of fixing the underlying problem (home/work locational imbalance).

And I was very sad to see no mention of Squid’s big brother comment @ 11. Sigh.

At least, even while Seattle and its boosters make their pitch to woo Russell, the State and City of Tacoma governments are trying, albeit belatedly, to help them stay put. Does make you wonder that if that Russell lease was another 5 years longer, Tacoma would be in a much better position to keep Russell (or really, for Russell to keep Tacoma).

Sassy McButterpants March 10, 2008

NSHDscott @ 69

Don’t feel bad. They didn’t quote my douchebag comment either.

Squid March 10, 2008

JP@67: hitting the hornet’s nest with a stick is just the first part of your initiation. Next you’ll be asked to take sides in a fight between the Children’s Museum and the human-powered boating community.

Crenshaw Sepulveda March 10, 2008

I’m thinking Russell is seriously looking at Olympia/Lacey. Incredible demographics. No hotspots for he brokers, but the rest is gold for Russell. I would think that Olympia would be a little too bohemian for the likes of Russell but a company like Russell, with its numbers of workers could transform that out of Olympia overnight. Tacoma’s dream downtown could very well end up in Olympia. Throw in all the high income state workers and lobbyists and Olympia could very well become the Seattle of the south sound. I will hate it, but it would make a lot of sense to the Russell people. I’m willing to wager that Olympia/Lacey gets a Trader Joe’s long before Tacoma does.

A disclaimer, I really like Olympia but I would not like what is left of it once Russell moved in down there. To me that would make Tacoma all the more appealing. In Tacoma we just need the right balance between hobo and boho.

Matt March 10, 2008

There’s a general bias against anything positive about Tacoma from the Seattle media.

I don’t know if it’s intentional or not… but I noticed on King 5’s website today that the Ventures are now a Seattle band that bought a couple of guitars from a Tacoma pawn shop… now that they’re in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they can’t possibly be from Tacoma, can they??

D. Voelpel March 10, 2008

“Hey Dan @ 47, did you really hear that or were you just trying to sneak a little inside info out of the new guy? Completely ditching Tacoma for Seattle AND Lacey would be giving one big middle finger to Tacoma (and all their employees who live here).”

Yes, NSHDscott @63, I really did hear that. Of course, these statement to new hires were allegedly made in October/November. A lot can change by the time the company makes its decision.

Tressie March 10, 2008

yikes… a lot of Russell slaves don’t even live in Tacoma…..just saying…..and so what …let ‘em go. It’s a bit disreputable what they do anyway….making money off the working class…..while pushing papers and bytes around…So it makes me kinda giggle to think of Russell, the raper of the worker, moving to Lefty-Oly…The Rich Will Do Anything For The Working Class Except Get Off Their Backs.

Erik B. March 10, 2008

There’s a general bias against anything positive about Tacoma from the Seattle media.

Yes. It’s possible that some of the bias is so deep they don’t realize some of it.

Take a look at the title:

Readers riff on Russell Investments and Tacoma’s aroma

What is should read is Tacoma Readers Allege Pro-Seattle Bias in Cross Cut Article

Of course, these statement to new hires were allegedly made in October/November. A lot can change by the time the company makes its decision.

As much as a Seattle and other entities would to think so, Tacoma has not lost this one yet.

The recent legislative bill to help Russell was not made in the abstract. The factors that effect any potential move are changing weekly.

If Russell moves from Tacoma, it won’t be as bad as what happened to Flint, Michigan but it will weaken many of the civic institutions, place the city in a financial problems and has the potential to set downtown back 10 to 15 years not to mention cause harm to the various Tacoma educational systems.

Eric March 10, 2008

Why does Tacoma have to go to Seattle to hire an Architect for the potential Russell building? I will say the biggest mistake that has now occured is hiring Sclater Partners Architects. They butchered the big design in Bellevue that the owner and builder had to rescue. They can draw a pretty picture but Tacoma better not plan on building it. Tacoma would have been better to hire BCRA who knows how to design a building. Why cant Tacoma hire a local firm that would have done a better job? Its like Boeing loosing the tanker contract. Is a local more qualified firm not cool enough for you?

morgan March 10, 2008

Random thought:

How come there aren’t more posts by Russell employees? Are they all just a bunch of lurkers? Do they know about exit133? I would like to know what they think of all this.

Eric March 10, 2008

I am sure there was a no comment memo that went around the office. They are real quiet about clients interests so it would be easy to keep quiet about this.

NSHDscott March 10, 2008

Thanks for responding, Dan @ 74. Your answer isn’t surprising, as the alternative is probably not the most ethical journalism.

I think your statement @ 47 got a bit lost among all the other posts. I mean, it’s a bit of a bombshell if Russell was telling their new hires months ago to house-shop in Seattle and Lacey, because it would suggest that they’ve already made a decision — in advance of Project Destiny’s presentation of potential Tacoma sites, and in advance of finding out what incentives the state might offer them to stick around.

Like you said, who knows if this really is, or will be, the case. But, especially with 5 years left on their current lease, you’d at least think they would wait to learn the full extent of all their options. And wow, what a statement about their opinion of Tacoma if they choose Seattle but do decide to maintain some offices outside of Seattle, and even then Tacoma loses to Lacey.

Derek staff March 10, 2008

How come there aren’t more posts by Russell employees? Are they all just a bunch of lurkers? Do they know about exit133?

There are a fair number of regular Russell readers. One of them caught me tonight and laughed at all the fuss in this thread. Their comment was that folks outside of Russell seem to care and talk about the potential move of Russell much more than folks inside Russell. It had never come up in a conversation at the office. To them, they simply work in Tacoma. If it changes at some point in the future, it changes. On the other hand, they conceded, they may care more in a few years.

NSHDscott March 11, 2008

Wow. That’s a remarkably cavalier attitude for something as major as a job relocation that could result in 2 hours/day wasted in a joyless commute and damage your community (for those who live in Tacoma, at least).

I can’t tell if it’s mercenary-like (follow the money), ostrich-like (head in the sand), or just plain apathetic.

Crenshaw Sepulveda March 11, 2008

I think Derek is on to something. Unless there is some secret Russell building going up somewhere, right now, no one is going to be moving anytime soon. The building construction cycle is an amount of time that is absolutely meaningless to someone working in a major company making major money.

RR Anderson may also be on to something. A day doesn’t go by where one major financial firm or another isn’t touched by the current mortgage lending fiasco. It could be that Russell has a lot more to worry about then the number of martini bars in downtown Tacoma.

This is all a lot of fun to speculate around but there are some pretty serious realities on the horizon. It may be that the fancy Russell brokers will just have to learn to love Tacoma.

One has to wonder if Russell will not become the next company to be linked to “sub-prime” mortgages in one way or another. When it is all said and done, our broker friends may be lucky to just have a job in the industry. The $700,000 the state is offering up doesn’t even keep the Tacoma brokers in their fancy suits.

It might end up that Russell might just be needing a new, smaller, building some where. Anyone up for converting what might become the former Russell headquarters to condos with granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances? Great location, not so great demographics. After all, a great city can’t have too many vacant condos in its downtown core.

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