Elks Building Back On The Market

Erik Hanberg March 11, 2008

I got $100. How much more do I need?

Mary March 11, 2008

Elks + Old City Hall + Winfields = Russell Village

NSHDscott March 11, 2008

The Elks is in the middle of my cool but bizarre, historic/modern Russell campus plan that also includes a few other beloved icons in that north corner of downtown. (Oh no, he’s bringing up Russell again!)

To reiterate a post I made a few months ago:

• A shiny, modern HQ skyscraper in the parking lot across from Old City Hall, next to the Spanish Steps.
• A refurbished Elks for Russell’s open-floor-plan trading floors, if it’s big enough, otherwise offices, servers, mail room, etc.
• A brick building in the parking lot next to the Elks for more offices.
• A refurbished Old City Hall for yet more offices.
• A parking garage between Old City Hall and the I-705 ramp, possibly with its own ramps.
• A renovated David’s on Broadway for an employees-only restaurant, fitness center, and lounge. Remodel the top story to a ultra-high-end condo for visiting big-wigs to stay in.
• Street, sidewalk, lighting, and landscaping improvements for this whole area.
• A Link extension to this big development, and then up Stadium Way and Division to the 6th Ave restaurant district (and hopefully further).

If Russell was interested in this plan, the city and state would have plenty of allies from the preservationists and Tacoma’s citizenry as a whole, in addition to the business community.

NSHDscott March 11, 2008

LOL, Mary, you beat me to the punch! I actually emailed Bruce Kendall (Project Destiny leader, EDB Pres/CEO) with this idea back in January, and here’s his response:

Scott – thanks for the email. Very interesting ideas, I love your passion. All options are open at this time and I will add yours to the mix.

Bruce

RR Anderson March 11, 2008

IF in some mysterious dreamland where Russel did move in THEN maybe THEN could there be a chance of PSP selling pizza by the slice to all those fat cat russle jockeys?

Ben March 11, 2008

I wonder how much they’re going to ask for the property. I have a feeling it’s going to go for a pretty penny over what they bought it for.

It’s a building in a odd situation. It’s somewhat like a big box, too small for any measurable office space, but way too big for most projects. Given it’s proportions, I don’t see effectively fitting condo’s/apartments in there.

The best use for it probably relates to it’s original use, mixed use public space for a theater or activity center. I know that’s not what downtown needs, but it’s just what seems like it will work. I think one reason why nobody has been able to build it up is this reason.

Ben

PS. I’d love to see some great pictures of the inside. I saw one or two a year ago, but a full gallery would be sweet.

Sassy McButterpants March 11, 2008

Sassy young faux-journalist seeks sugar daddy to purchase her new downtown residence…

altered chords March 11, 2008

If enough people show up for my jazz gig tonight and put a lot of money in our tip jar (Russellites looking for nightlife perhaps), then I’ll buy the damn building and turn it into a jazz club.

C’mon people, help me build my dream.

PS – One Heart Cafe 6th and Fawcett 5:30 – 8:30. Shameless plug.

PS – Sassy, you can be our PR Dept. You’ll have an office with a view of the steps.

Furniture Man March 11, 2008

Given the building location, proximity to the Theater District, and size/layout this woould make a beautiful new “arthouse” movie theater. We definately could use another movie theater downtown. It would bring more nightlife to downtown, and it would be easily accessible via public transportation.
Help build the dream!

sultans007 March 11, 2008

No matter how you “slice” it [pun intended] it means we’ll have to continue looking at the dirty eyesore longer than we thought. I would have loved to have seen Oregon-based McMenamin’s come here and do something with it. Keep it? Absolutely, but we need to find someone who is going to a take a real interest in it as a property, not just an asset.

Mofo from the Hood March 12, 2008

Just out of curiosity, what year was that building last occupied by a functioning business organization?

Crenshaw Sepulveda March 12, 2008

“Once upon a time, a trader bought a tin of sardines for $1 and sold them to a rival for $1.50. This trader in turn sold them for $2” and so on and so forth. Years pass, “until chancing upon a man willing to pay $10. The buyer, who was famished, opened the tin only to find that the sardines were inedible. ‘But you don’t understand,’ the vendor said. ‘These were trading sardines, not eating sardines’.

I sometimes think this applies to our buildings like the Elks, Winthrop, or that school the church is trying to unload for a huge profit a few months after buying it. We’ve seen a lot of buying and selling and buying and selling of Tacoma’s treasured buildings but it seems that no one is willing to do anything with them so long as they can make a buck buying and selling them as is, or even in a deteriorating state. You just have to love the real estate business.

michael g. March 12, 2008

It seems hard to believe that Williams & Dame will get more, or even as much, as they paid for that building when they bought it only a year or so ago. Wouldn’t it be smarter to use this economically slow time to fix it up? The place is sufficiently thrashed that the economy may well be in better shape by the time a restoration could be finished. Oh well.

Ben March 12, 2008

Michael,

They’re probably having trouble finding a construction loan to get the money to fix it up. That’s one of the first things to get cut, construction financing. Alot of projects have been put on hold for that reason.

Ben

Jake March 12, 2008

Just out of curiosity, what year was that building last occupied by a functioning business organization?

1990? Location of the TPD HQ in the movie I Love You To Death???

Maybe not a business but it functioned for the movie.

Phil March 12, 2008

Loan or no loan…..we know there are passionate advocates for downtown revitalization & preservation. We also know there is a great deal of shall we say, ‘quiet money’ inhabiting our town.

What’s lacking is an inspired presence brave & crazy enough to bring the two together to create a new vision for some of our City’s most prized treasures.

PS- www.savefaithdairy.org

NSHDscott March 12, 2008

I may be stealing her thunder, but on the TNT Biz Buzz blog, jenyum posted the greatest idea for the Elks Temple yet:
Children’s Museum!

• Museums need big, open floor plans, usually with no or limited windows — check.
• A Children’s Museum needs character — check.
• Our Children’s Museum in particular needs political backing from many diverse parties — check (right?)
• A museum needs parking, and there are parking lots on either side of it on the Stadium/Commerce side, plus the northernmost Link stop isn’t too far away — check.
• The Children’s Museum wants green space, I understand, and if they buy the lot south of the Spanish Steps, or if they build an underground garage on the lot on the north side, the green space could go there on the north side — check!

Nice one tacomamama! (Hey, that’s fun to type!)

Crenshaw Sepulveda March 12, 2008

Anyone get the feeling we’ll be having this very same conversation five years from now?

drizell March 12, 2008

It’s just about the right size for a good base for a taller building. The lack of windows could make the interior of the Elks a nice, grand lobby and parking garage for a 10-story glass box on top. Better to not let the air rights go to waste.

The Gulag March 12, 2008

Just out of curiosity, what year was that building last occupied by a functioning business organization?

As far as I can recall, the last regular occupant of the Elks temple is the Elks themselves; which they left for their new location sometime between 1962 and 1966.

I do know that in 1966 the city looked at the prospect of adapting the temple into a performing arts center.

snoopy March 12, 2008

who is going to move that building?

sultans007 March 12, 2008

For Mofo: The Elks left in 1965 and it has been devoid of function since. I hesitate to call it “empty” because of the 1990 movie and the “spray can Picassos” that frequent it.

Bradley Jensen March 12, 2008

I agree with sultans007 this is a PERFECT building for one of McMenamin’s Restaurant/Bar/Theatre/Brewery locations. And McMenamin’s would be a welcome addition to the Tacoma dining landscape.

morgan March 12, 2008

This is troubling for Tacoma. I hope Williams and Dame aren’t the new Zimmerman. If W&D can’t get it to pencil, is there another developer who can? I was under the impression that these guys were IT when it comes to urban development. How frustrating.

Andrew Campbell March 12, 2008

They’re IT in some sense, but Homer’s problem is not that he doesn’t have enough inclination or money, rather, he has TOO MUCH. In talking to a friend the other night, that’s the conclusion reached about owners of historic propoerty, they’re almost always one of the two: not rich enough or too rich.
You can all admit it, come on… this building is a nightmare. HOWEVER, so was Alber’s… SO is the Luzon (we owe Gintz at least a little gratitude here). This can be done, it’s a nightmare, but it’s there.
Homer (aka goon handyman of Homer) repaired the roof and cleaned up the side yard of the building. That seems to be all the restoration he has in him when it comes to this place.
From a development point of view, this building seems so risky still. It will be interesting to watch its fate as that part of the city continues to re-blossom… maybe a few more St Helens improvements would provide impetus to get the old elk back on her feet…

NSHDscott March 12, 2008

Really? No one else thinks that it’s a good place for the Children’s Museum? (See #17.)

It and the lot next to it is for sale at $5 million. Put another $5 million in renovations into it. It’s a museum, so the renovations don’t have to be fancy, just clean it up and pour new concrete floors like most museums have. Isn’t $10 million a great price to solve both the Children’s Museum relocation and Elks Temple preservation issues?

michael g. March 12, 2008

I’m with you on the Children’s Museum idea, Scott. Seems like a great site for it if the restoration costs aren’t way higher than building a new building.

Nick March 12, 2008

Oh definitely an excellent idea for the Children’s Museum. It’s almost as if the stars have aligned for it to happen – just as they are backing out of their push to move to the Foss, this building becomes available.

The only issue I can foresee is it becoming too cost prohibitive. Perhaps we need to make sure the right people are made aware of this possibility. Someone closer to their relocation process could probably tell right away whether or not it could even be an option.

David Boe March 12, 2008

From a viable ‘use’ standpoint, the Children’s Museum is an ideal occupant for the Old Elks Building. One of the development ‘challenges’ of the building is that is a big barn with very few windows – just what a museum needs. Combine that with it’s location on a quiet stretch of Broadway, on bus routes, up from the Link, and possible parking and expansion possiblities to the North – combine it with a public/private partnership – a natural.

Andrew Campbell March 12, 2008

frisk me, cuff me and call me shirley… I think you’re on to something there guys. In theory, it’s a perfect use. The infrastructure is even present, it all fits… sort of. When did the childrens museum abandon the Foss idea?

CA March 12, 2008

Correct me if I’m wrong, somebody. But isnt the empty lot to the north part of the deal? What would the Childrens Museum do with that lot? Probably nothing. I think the Elks building’s only savior will be a large mixed use building on that empty lot, that would be somehow attached and incorporated. Unfortunately the lending market is just so bad right now that it wont pencil out. We’re just gonna have to wait the market out a little longer.

NSHDscott March 12, 2008

CA @ 31, yes, I too understand that the Elks Temple and the parking lot to the north of it are a package deal. It’s also my understanding that the Children’s Museum wants some green space, or at least could benefit from it. The Elks Temple has the Spanish Steps to the south to provide some green buffer, but it isn’t kid-friendly. I’d suggest that the north lot be used for green space instead.

I think the ultimate solution would be to build a 2-story garage there, with one story at ground level with an attractive entrance and the second story underground. Then the green space could go on top, with good fencing of course. They’d need to punch a door into the Elks Temple to feed into that green space, but the benefit is that the kids would be totally protected from traffic and no bums could get in there at night. The downside is that an office building or condo (if the market was better) would generate more tax dollars to help pay for it.

morgan March 12, 2008

Ok- is someone forwarding this thread to the Children’s Museum? Do their board members read the blogs or even know what they are? They need to jump on this quick.

As for the vacant lot, they can use it for parking until the market restores itself and then they or someone else can build class A office space with extra parking for the museum.

phil March 12, 2008

Just speculating, but Childrens Museum may be out due to additional life & fire safety reqs due to its rug rat occupancy.

But what an ideal way to indoctrinate future Tacoma voters/taxpayers on the importance of historic preservation?!

NSHDscott March 12, 2008

I emailed Tanya Andrews, the Executive Director, with a link to this post and with a list of the benefits that this building would provide, as stated in comments 17, 34, and 35. Not sure what else to do. Any other suggestions? I’d be happy to forward that email to anyone else who wants to spread it around to decision-makers.

NSHDscott March 12, 2008

Thanks for the input, Dom @ 37. I’m not at all surprised to hear the rents as an office or condo aren’t worth the costs. That’s part of the reason I liked the Children’s Museum idea … it might not have to make money to succeed. I doubt any museum really makes money, but it’s worth the costs because it’s a civic institution. And this is even more worth losing money on than our other new museums, because it’s saving a historic building rather than building something new.

Erik B. March 13, 2008

The price is $5 mill. The problem is rents don’t pencil the construction costs.

Thanks for the insights Dominic. However, if the project does not “pencil” why are they asking for such a premium for the building? Is it that they are not being realistic?

What is the value for the lot alone?

johnschoppert March 13, 2008

Could the city just paint it till its sold? There’s some great detail to that building and maybe a prim facelift would make people remember the glory. And would make all those heading up Stadium Way from 705 take a second look. What would that costs, $10,000.00?

Phil March 13, 2008

Morgan, you’re right on. We keep acting like victims in this & other urban rebirth dramas, yet keep sending our money to mutual fund managers in NY & Boston.

There is a disconnect.

rich March 13, 2008

how about “The Elks Hotel & Spa”…….use the north lot to build an additional structure and join it to the existing……..since the Winthrop is going nowhere FAST……maybe this could be our grand hotel…..

Tanya Andrews March 13, 2008

It’s so exciting to see so many of you giving thoughtful consideration to the Children’s Museum’s next home. We need and appreciate your support and ideas.

The Museum’s Board of Directors are assembling a team to lead our search effort. First task will be to revisit our search criteria to ensure they are still the right criteria. (We will invite community input on this, too) With new criteria in hand, we’ll begin assessing our options.

The Staff and Board do read the blog entries, and we are logging all of the ideas we’ve received. Elks included.

Thanks, and contact me with any questions and/or visit our site www.childrensmuseumoftacoma.org to sign up to receive information on our progress.

Again, thanks.

Squid March 13, 2008

Since this is becoming a thread of ideas on where to put TCM, I’ll chime in: Just lease a couple of floors of the vacated Russell building. Maybe the owner will give you a sweetheart deal – build-out would be relatively cheap.

Erik B. March 13, 2008

The Museum’s Board of Directors are assembling a team to lead our search effort. First task will be to revisit our search criteria to ensure they are still the right criteria. (We will invite community input on this, too) With new criteria in hand, we’ll begin assessing our options.

I hope it stays downtown in the middle of alot of uses rather than moved to some remote location where there is nothing but a parking lot to walk to.

Jake March 13, 2008

They need to scrap the 1 acre requirement. This is Downtown Tacoma not South Hill Puyallup. 1 acre in downtown would cost millions of dollars and would in most cases mean buildings will have to come down. And really who wants the Childrens Museum to take up a whole acre+ of land in our growing Downtown? It just sound low-rise and sprawlish.

My suggestion is the Fawcett House site on 21st and Fawcett along with the parcels that went up on the market across the street for parking.
It is in the UWT Campus so it might not be popular putting a none UWT building in there but it is a good central location. Close to Transit and right off the freeway.

drizell March 13, 2008

“I hate to say it, but Mr. Zimmerman has been right all along and even in his grave he’s telling the City of Tacoma, “I told you so.” The Elks building doesn’t pencil. If anyone could have done it, it’s Williams and Dame. They have extremely deep pockets, lots of experience in these properties, and the vision to make it work. The building needs to be torn down.”

I agree. There is a time that you eventually must accept pulling the plug. But the historic preservation Nazis would make that hard to do.

RR Anderson March 13, 2008

Drizell, with that kind of attitude how do you expect to get on anybody’s lists?

drizell March 14, 2008

Attitude? What that is, my friend, is art. Artfully created comments to provide insight about what helps and what hinders the design of urban Tacoma. The Elks building is the number one obstacle to the perception that the northern part of downtown has changed from the days when no one had any reason to come to Tacoma. Historic preservationists will read my comment and wonder to themselves, “Are my actions to try to preserve all these historic buildings really helping Tacoma in the long run, or am I contributing to Tacoma’s eventual decline?”

Thank you for commenting on my art. Will you pay as much for it as some people are willing to pay for your amateur cartoons?

JAYE March 14, 2008

oh my…

48 comments