Jackson Building Grinds To A Halt

Peter Peter March 31, 2010

The closing quote in the article from Tom O’Connor cracked me up.

Jake March 31, 2010

I know everyone in the neighborhood was looking forward to the project being complete and almost 200 market-rate units going in. Currently there are no market-rate apartments available for rent in the neighborhood (other than condos for rent, mostly larger units)

I bet some of the non-profits are salivating over this. Maybe if they pick it up it they will rename it The Winthrop II?

Brent March 31, 2010

City should buy it and move people from Winthrop there and revitalize the heart of tacomas downtown. Winthrop area is GHETTO, make it world class again.

whatever March 31, 2010

Not surprised by this outcome at all.

I want to know what Mr. Ingels was thinking when he broke ground on this project last fall when there was already a glut of apartments and condos available on the market to rent.

I bet they never even finalized contracts with a grocer, a coffee /sandwich shop or any retailers so Banner pulled the plug.. not because they were 1-month late.

Erik B. March 31, 2010

Someone better to do something with it or it will become yet another offender housing unit on Hilltop.

Poor Hilltop simply can’t seem to get a break.

artifacts March 31, 2010

The same development group that gutted the elegant interior on the Walker Apartments in a misdirected effort to make condo units look like the inside of any Belltown dittobuilding. That project also stares blankly at the city, incomplete and peopleless.

Altered Chords March 31, 2010

Sad.

You're Welcome April 1, 2010

Why is it such a stigma to have a job and pay for housing? Why do we have to provide houses for the poor? The Winthrop is a joke. Have you been near it lately? Course not, you don’t hang out in that area because it’s shady. Why does Tacoma feel the need to fund an big fat pimple of society?

Mofo from the Hood April 1, 2010

Funny thing about the Jackson Building in Hilltop, besides naming it after Michael Jackson, is that if the building had been completed and occupied then it wouldn’t fit into the neighborhood.

Progress in Hilltop is when you tear down all the old shuttered vacant buildings with mismatched siding and then replace them with new shuttered vacant buildings with mismatched siding.

crenshaw sepulveda April 1, 2010

I’m really sorry a lot of good, hard working people have lost jobs because of this. I thought the project itself was pretty stupid but I was hoping it would be completed to keep some people employed in this horrible economy.

Dale Rush April 1, 2010

As we sort this out, we shall direct “tourist traffic” to Albertsons at #38th & Pacific & Stadium T Way (nice improvements !)
The list grows longer of “just when you thought” and so, “we wait”…
Maybe the Joy Bldg !!

crenshaw sepulveda April 1, 2010

My best laugh in a long time comes from Derek Young who wrote on 25.April.2007 regarding this project:

Metropolitan Red is planning apartments, inexpensive condos, and another downtown grocery store for the site. Two grocery stores in downtown Tacoma within the next few years… plus a third hiding in the wings. It’s becoming a neighborhood. Buy now!

From a few months before that Derek gave me another laugh:

That hillside on the south side of downtown is going to be a completely different place in a few years. Check it out. Or… invest now.

god, how I miss he heady days when Exit133 had their fancy condo map where all the condos, rumored condos, and any other condo related location was mentioned. Of course, back then Exit133 was about “about Real Estate, Politics, the Arts, Urban Development, and the interests of our readers.” I wonder if Derek has any remorse for flogging these worthless condo projects.

crinshaw zepeda April 1, 2010

It wont work, we’re all doomed. They should just level all of downtown because it’s worthless. No one wants to live in Tacoma.

Jim C April 1, 2010

The end of the TNT article referenced by Peter Peter @1 is a great lesson about the myth of American entrepreneurship. It’s always going to take money to make money, folks, no matter how much we wish the world worked differently.

As long your Mom can co-sign, anyone can be a “successful” developer!

Thorax O'Tool April 1, 2010

Trust me, if my mom co-signed, even Uncle Sam wouldn’t finance it. That’s pretty sad since they’re giving away Obamabucks like there’s no tomorrow.

Actually, sometimes you have to wonder if there is a tomorrow…

Jesse April 1, 2010

I have an idea! Let’s tear something down to build something new. Then, we’ll either never build anything or stop at a point where what we’ve done is actually more problematic than a vacant lot! Oh, wait… how many projects can we list like this in Tacoma since 1940? Dozens? Hundreds?

It’s become the new “Tacoma Method”

PS — Crud! I’m starting to sound like a jaded TNT commenter. Can something good happen around here soon? I need it.

Altered Chords April 2, 2010

C’mon people. Get some vitamin D3. There are positive changes all around us. What do you choose to focus upon?

By the way. Like the Murray Morgan bridge ribbon cutting ceremony celebrating the 1/2 opening of the bridge, there will be a Jackson building ribbon cutting ceremony celebrating the 1/2 completed project.

Time/ date TBA.

Morty April 6, 2010

The reality is that Tacoma is already considered a hands off market. Other than friends and family few investors are willing to finance deals here anymore and many local Banks are unable to. 505 Broadway, MT lofts, the Walker, the Esplanade, the Apex, millions of dollars in failed or non performing loans. My company’s credit line was cancelled months ago and private money is refusing to lend here. The Elks building’s only hope is a long shot HUD loan. Sorry folks we are in for a long nuclear winter here. Forget street cars and bridges we need jobs, every penny of the city has should be spent promoting and retaining jobs…otherwise we will be filling these buildings with section 8.

Soon to be Exit 166 April 7, 2010

I live in McCarver Village, adjacent to this disaster. I look out my windows at it every day. For the last month, it makes me want to cry.

I am so done with Tacoma. Bitter and heading north. I have a good job here that I will likely commute for (though I expect I can find a similar position in Seattle). I want to live somewhere that is vibrant and urban, rather than somewhere that promises to be. I want to live someplace that has more than one place to sit and have coffee in the evenings (name one beyond Mandolin, please!). I want truly walkable neighborhoods (have you made the gauntlet from 25th and Yakima to the library? watch out for the very aggressive prostitutes on 25th, and the swarm of homeless from the various service centers.)

Exit133 sold me a great vision in 2007 when I was trying to figure out where to live in the Puget Sound area. Now I am selling out (actually getting foreclosed upon, kind of the same thing) and heading to the great mecca.

Altered Chords April 7, 2010

Tacoma is the only city that has suffered from the recession? I did not know that.

All of this negative chatter is a sure sign that the recession is over and that we are due for an upswing.

It is the opposite of 3 years ago when all you could read was positivity when we were going down the tubes.

CA April 7, 2010

“All of this negative chatter is a sure sign that the recession is over and that we are due for an upswing.”

That’s called a contrarian indicator.

tom waits April 7, 2010

Artifacts @6:

There have been many situations here in Tacoma to lead me to question the competency of certain developers. To be fair, some projects have stalled due to sudden shifts in the lending climate and sales market.

However, I will grossly overgeneralize and note that a lot of the Tacoma “players” were folks who got a start by building financial houses of cards during the “easy money” development boom a few years back.

It was a little satisfying to see some projects cave when the market got oversaturated, and buyers started getting picky. Many of those shlocky projects got in trouble pretty quickly. Yeah, build crap and you might have a hard time filling it.

Being a developer is hard. In hard times, we are finding some folks to be not so good at assessing risk, and to be woefully out of touch with the nebulous concept of “taste.”

I’ve heard the phrase, “Got in over their heads” more than once in passing conversation around here.

crenshaw sepulveda April 8, 2010

Soon to be Exit 166, back in 07 Exit 133 did a lot of shilling for the condo industry. Suggesting people invest in this neighborhood and telling us how many grocery stores and coffee shops would be located there. I wonder if Derek Young has any remorse over what happened to people like you.

Peter Peter April 8, 2010

“Exit 133 did a lot of shilling for the condo industry. Suggesting people invest in this neighborhood and telling us how many grocery stores and coffee shops would be located there”

I don’t think this is completely true. Can you point to any links that show this supposed shilling? Or do you count the reporting of development rumors – which were common in the early days of Exit 133 – as shilling? It’s easy to criticize optimism that fails in hindsight.

I read that “buy now” as a half serious commentary on the herd mentality of real estate at the time. That’s just me.

tom waits April 8, 2010

Crenshaw @24:

Why should anyone promoting Tacoma during its boom times feel any responsibility for a market turn? That’s completely absurd.

If the information someone reads on a local blog is the sole decision criteria for making the largest financial investment in a lifetime, then what can you say? But, of course, no one does that. People make decisions on housing based on all sorts of factors: price, value, financing, location, timing, personal circumstances…

Now, how about the real estate agents who advised clients that it was OK (and a no-brainer) to buy not one, but two houses. And the banks came through with crazy loan instruments, with adjustable rates, interest only, no verified income, and kickbacks for loan officers. And developers, who also got crazy construction financing with questionable collateral and built multiple projects at once, were there with the latest condo development ready for occupancy next month.

And then there’s Exit 133, saying, hey check it out: there’s a lot of new housing coming on line these days. Exciting times for Tacoma! BTW the TNT, PSBJ, Weekly, Biz Examiner, etc., all did the same thing, as did the city itself.

I totally feel for those who have been caught short in this housing and stock market downturn. There hasn’t been a good, solid, safe investment strategy apparent for a while now; people are getting burned in stocks, funds, and real estate. And those whose life circumstances (job, illness, divorce) force a sale of a home right now – it is an awful reality.

But it ain’t Exit 133’s fault.

RR Anderson April 8, 2010

hmm. I smell tacomic ideas..!

captiveyak April 8, 2010

What Mr. Young should have done with exit133 is this: made it the prescient voice of self-satisfied skepticism. Here’s an article he should have ran in 2007: “UWT Still Looks Like Sh!z, Spits in the Eye of Native History.” Or perhaps this: “Re-paving Efforts Cover Streets With Inedible Asphalt, Tacoma’s Poor Betrayed Once Again.” He definitely should have written, “invest in Fairbanks! Their civic leaders can hit the urinal when they relieve themselves, which is more than we can say about Tacoma.” The site’s motto should have been, “Exit 133: Your Newborn Baby is a Traitor and a Deviant. Keep Feeding it Anyway.” Every post should have ended with the sentence “this will end in bloodshed and tears – which is what Tacoma is made of.”

there’s a difference between being pessimistic and being prescient. No one ever accomplished anything by believing more strongly in defeat than victory. These are trying times. EVERYWHERE. Not a single one of us embodies the struggle of our city any more authentically than the next. I am not going to sully my soul or my city by betting against the good nature and Constructive intiative of it’s residents; because if I proceed in that manner here, I will find reasons to do so elsewhere and soon find the entire planet unsuitable for habitation. I am not so special as to require a more pure earth than the next guy. I’ll work with what I’ve got and do what i can to make it better.

Mofo from the Hood April 8, 2010

As I remember, a lot of the E133 real estate posts were placed under a banner, “On the Market.” They were similar to this post, although they usually had a photo of the building, and the commentators would give their yay or nay.

The inital posts weren’t E133 prescriptions to buy. However the additional commentators offered a general sense of how a segment of the market valued a particular RE project.

From about 2004-2007 the public was really subjected to extensive propaganda (not from 133) that played on everybody’s wish for a shortcut to prosperity. Nobody at the time was saying, “Remember back in the 1920’s when real estate speculation got out of control?”

crenshaw sepulveda April 8, 2010

Just check out my post at # 12. On just this particular development I give you plenty of evidence of Derek shilling for the condo developers.

I haven’t been silent on the matter of these absurd condo projects over the years. One has to wonder if Exit133 wasn’t one of those “local blogs” that were actually organs for the real estate industry. It was fairly common in those mid 2000’s days.

Just remember, from Exit133’s masthead back then when exit133 said it was “about Real Estate, Politics, the Arts, Urban Development, and the interests of our readers.” I don’t think that one of their interests was to be driven into foreclosure. Maybe Derek didn’t bring this economic crisis upon us but he certainly was fanning the flames that brought about this destruction.

Thorax O'Tool April 8, 2010

“Nobody at the time was saying, “Remember back in the 1920’s when real estate speculation got out of control?” “

I was. But no one listens to me. There is a reason why I’ve been living in an apartment for almost half a decade. But you see, this is my choice to make. Not anyone else’s.

To be fair, I like buildings. I like active development. Is there shame in enjoying watching a boom that you have no ability to stop nor inclination to join?

Is there an issue with 133 having been excited by things happening and wanting to report on them?

The answer to both is “no”.

If a business failed, if a bank went T/U, if you’re in debt up to your eyeballs, whose fault is it?

No one forced banks to lend irresponsibly.
No one forced developers to take on more risk than they could handle.
No one forced people to use their house as an ATM or to buy what they couldn’t afford.

That’s the funny thing about the system. It’s voluntary.

crenshaw sepulveda April 8, 2010

There was a day not all that long ago when I saw “sold” sings in just about every condo window of the Mecca. The people selling the condos were telling people they are going fast and we can’t even show you certain units because they have been bought up. You know how this story ends, no one bought a single condo and the Mecca is in foreclosure. Plenty of lying to go around in that business. Plenty of hyperbole. The truth and results just don’t taste as sweet. The real estate game isn’t that much different than professional wrestling. With wrestling we at least know it is fake.

captiveyak April 8, 2010

I, for one, am getting pretty tired of KIRO TV shilling for traffic jams on I-5. I wonder if Jenni Hogan ever feels any remorse about people who avoid a traffic jam due to her reporting, but end up getting a ticket for speeding?

tom waits April 8, 2010

i wonder how many people have dropped dead from all the shilling going on in this blog and others for artery clogging fare at frisko freeze, sonic, etc? how many of us now have chronic drinking problems, leading to duis, liver failure and heart disease, from all the shilling done for drinking establishments?

i mean, what makes that all the worse is that fast food is cheap, and therefore disproportionately the lower classes, and drinking is used to alleviate chronic stress, which is probably being experienced by more people in these down times.

exit 133 should be condemning those new bars that open and publishing public health notices to advise its readership each time a carls jr comes to town.

Jesse April 9, 2010

BLAMING Derek? I’m laughing. Everyone was excited about all the development in T-town. Should he have not been excited too or reported on it?

Derek, you’re a modern Tacoma booster like in the days of yore. No apologies.

Soon to be Exit 166 April 9, 2010

Oh! I don’t blame Derek (much). I moved here from more than a time zone away and wanted to live in an urban area that was more affordable than Seattle. I now know that there are 1. affordable areas in Seattle, and 2. 25th and Yakima is nowhere near any identifiable urban area.

I did my research online (I may be the only person who read CitySteps’ webpage, or tried to buy into the Element before it broke ground). I used the intertubes (mostly exit133, but there were other offenders) to confirm what the condo salespeople were saying — the area is vibrant, growth growth growth, walk to the Swiss and I will buy you a beer!

I tried to make it work. I struck up a conversation with sweetpea. I went to a LoveTacoma event. I walked Point Defiance park in the early weekend hours. In the end, there is some very bad badness here in Tacoma — a potent cocktail of joblessness, crime and bad development.

I am getting out because I have no hope that it will get better. I am financially able to make payments on my shiny new condo. However, it is no longer a financially defensible decision to continue payments when I owe at least 150% of the current value.

Altered Chords April 9, 2010

Newsflash. Famines, wars and recessions always end. Similarly, prosperity, peace and expansions end. It’s all cyclical. Belief that things as they are will never change ignores a basic fact of life.

Exit is in a bad time now.

Bad times.
Always end someday.
Cheer up now.

a taiku poem by altered chords designed to cheer up exit166

altered chords is like a ray of sunshine.

by the way – good luck finding a place to live that has their ownd poetry meter.

CA April 9, 2010

Probably not a good idea to buy a home based almost entirely on what you read online, especially blogs.

Nevertheless, I sympathize with you regarding your underwater mortgage. I too would be bitter, angry, frustrated, and just downright pissed. But you’re certainly not the only one. I personally know a few people who’ve bought homes/condos in Tacoma in the last few years and they too are underwater on their mortgages.

Actually, there are MILLIONS of American in this exact position right now. It’s not just a Tacoma phenomenon.

tom waits April 9, 2010

(Soon to be Exit 166): I hear you and sympathize. Really. Condo development and ancillary neighborhood revitalization really fell off the cliff before critical mass was reached.

We all know what Altered Chords expresses above: these things end, things get better (or return to the mean over time).

Unfortunately, life goes on while we wait for the change we want. I’ve considered buying into areas in transition, but the rate of transition is the big variable. I don’t blame you one bit for walking away.

One of the unfortunate issues with condo development is that developers rely on a whole host of external factors (continued financing, other developers) to fulfill the promises they make to potential buyers. If those factors fail to materialize or come to fruition, then it all dissolves or at least takes a big pause.

Altered Chords April 9, 2010

I bought a home in oct of ’08 after part of the meltdown but before the entire meltdown.

Water
I’m under it now.
But so what?

I still like my house despite the lawn care

Brown spots
Last summer scortched lawn
Re-Seeding.

L. Lisa Lawrence April 10, 2010

I for one still believe in Tacoma.

So much so, that I am signing papers today to purchase a home on the HillTop.

Ten years ago, I wouldn’t have driven down this street; now I am excited about my soon to be turn of the century home and the vibrant neighborhood in which is sits.

CA April 10, 2010

Congrats Lisa!

whatever April 12, 2010

Tacoma as a city is fine, but the housing prices will continue to fall from the frothy valuations of the last few years.

It is still cheaper to rent most homes in the north end that is compared to the monthly mortgage.

I continue to see 2-3 bed houses in the north end rent for $1400 or less when the monthly mortgage payment would be $2,000+ and would require a healthy down-payment (20%) of $65K+

The rent-to-buy ratio is still way out of whack.

crenshaw sepulveda April 13, 2010

“The rent-to-buy ratio is still way out of whack.” Are you suggesting that house prices have to come down some more or rents have to go up a lot more? The old rule of thumb was you sold rental property for 100 times the monthly rents. Let’s see, a 3 bedroom house in the north end should be going for about $140,000. Seems about right to me.

dolly varden April 13, 2010

I feel bad for exit 166’s personal circumstances, but the same thing could have happened if he/she bought a condo around the same time in Belltown (or Bethesda). The flaming of Tacoma on the way out rings of bitterness, but not truth.

Jake April 13, 2010

“adjacent to this disaster. I look out my windows at it every day.”

Could it be Exit 166er bought a townhome and didn’t check the zoning of the property next door to see what could be built there and it blocked their view? I am sure that would make people bitter but it would be nobody’s fault but their own. The Jackson building land wasn’t rezoned.

whatever April 13, 2010

@ Jake

I think he is defining the Jackson building as a unfinished “disaster” that basically sums up the condo development around Tacoma.

View or no view he would still be -50% negative equity. Definitely not worth keeping at that point.

Altered Chords April 13, 2010

Walking from a home because the mkt value has declined since purchase is a simple step in a speculative real estate transaction.

Did you buy the place to live in or to flip.

If you bought it to flip, the market went against you. Happens all day long every day in the equities and commodities markets.

If you bought it to live in then live in it. Stop with the short sightedness already. You’ll probably live another 40 years at least. Your great grandkids will appreciate the $4,000,000 inheritance.

crenshaw sepulveda April 13, 2010

I think Exit 166 is telling us that 25th and Yakima is like Oakland, there is no there there. Exit 166 was sold a promise of coffee shops and an urban lifestyle. The real estate types will tell you 25th and Yakima is 2 blocks away from the UWT campus. What they don’t tell you is that it is the undeveloped western boundary of the campus and it is decades from being anything remotely urban, let alone educational.

Altered Chords April 13, 2010

Still, you can walk to the Swiss from there. That’s something.

tom waits April 14, 2010

something to drown your sorrows?

Thorax O'Tool April 14, 2010

Regrets.
Disappointing condos.
You bought in.

Altered Chords April 14, 2010

2 6 3 ?

Proper.
Meter is the thing.
Taiku flag.

whatever April 14, 2010

Walking away from a home that has declined -50% is just common financial sense.

Plus, did you read his comments?? Sounds miserable and not happy with the neighborhood. Life is too short to live that unhappy… especially 30yrs till your loan is paid off!

Who wants to be stuck never being able to move?? life happens and people rarely stay in the original home they purchased. Cut your losses and buy back at MUCH lower levels in 5 yrs or so when your credit improves.

Housing prices will eventually increase but they will revert back to historical average increase rates of just 4-5% — and this won’t happen for a loooong time. We will stay flat at best for many years to come.

With 50% negative equity, it will take probably 15-20 yrs just to get back to BREAK EVEN!!

No idea how much or when they purchased the condo but some were bought in the $300k range that are now selling in the $190k and less. The interest rates were higher 3-4 yrs ago so they are likely stuck with in the 6.5% range.

A $300k mortgage at 6.5% = $1900 month (plus the tax abatement will end in 7yrs which will add another $200/month)

Including interest, that is a total of over $682,633

You can easily rent a similar Tacoma apt/condo for $900 now and save $1000 a month!

One can rent a nice 2 or 3-bed condo/apt in the beautiful Seattle neighborhoods of Queen Anne, Green Lake, Ballard, Fremont, etc for $1400/month or less and be within walking distance to the most desirable amenities of the entire west coast.

Altered Chords April 14, 2010

Condo.
Live in a shoebox.
it’s too small.

Music.
Against condo rules.
No practice.

Expert.
I know everything.
Don’t think so.

Future
I know what it holds
Must be nice.

54 comments