Keeping Up Historic Appearances?
The TNT has posted images of the proposed building that will be built immediately to the north of the Elks Building. As this project is sandwiched in between the Elks and the old Union Club, the question being asked is whether fitting into the historic character of the neighborhood is important. Does it need to blend in? Is it time to stand out?
Link to The News Tribune
Filed under: McMenamins Elks Project
22 comments
M Mark January 19, 2011
Tacoma needs more creative, exciting buildings, ZGF could do better. The Esplanade is an example of a boring building, at least add some color or add some additional materials. Let’s not let another sterile building invade Tacoma.
P Published Author and Faithful Husband RR Anderson January 19, 2011
re: ‘creativity’ please god no more giant glazed copper fish or draped curtains. Let’s try and keep the awful hotel room art on the inside!
Y You're Welcome January 20, 2011
“Fitting into the historic character of the neighborhood” ?
Like Bella on Broadway? Like 505? Like the Metropolitan? Like Hanna Heights? Do all of these fit the historical character?
I think rescuing a dilapidated building from the bulldozers feels like an angel came to town. And we’re lucky to have someone to want to keep the historical character of the Elks.
J Jesse January 20, 2011
I am surprised that the historical council would have a problem with this. Are they going to inter-fight about it’s vision and stall the project? Can they do that? (see also waterfront hotel on the Foss) Not everyone is going to agree on all aspects of the building anyways.
I think the building looks awesome. The interior apartments are supposedly loft style, which Tacoma has a severe lack of. It will provide the “cool” factor to living in that specific area.
E Erik B. January 20, 2011
The Elks Temple has sat dilapidated for 30 plus years. One has to wonder whether the Landmarks Preservation Commission is causing more harm than good. The report from the meeting makes it look like they were having a contest to see who could be more nit picky with contradictory commentary.
Downtown Tacoma is filled with empty decaying buildings which the Commission no power over. Anyone considers fixing one up is faced with a laundry wish list of demands by the Commission.
William W. Philip Hall at UWT was forced to be an ultra modern building so not to imitate the surrounding buildings. Now somehow, because the developer is not UWT, this is not good enough.
One of the worst comments from the commission had to do with their concern for the size of the building. The height allowance is 400 feet here! The proposed building is less than half of this height.
Downtown Tacoma badly needs more people living downtown if it is ever going to thrive. Plus, a significant building next to the Elks is going to be required to help finance the renovation of the Elks.
If the Commission keeps this up their unreasonable actions in another meeting, they risk killing off the renovation of the Elks Temple completely.
I note that the objections concerned the building next to the Elks. The developer intends to renovate the Elks.
M Mofo from the Hood January 20, 2011
Build a 400ft. contemporary skyscraper. Let’s move Tacoma forward.
P Published Author RR Anderson, Friend of the People January 20, 2011
listen to the Urbanist! Sanity now!
R Rick Jones January 21, 2011
Read this article this morning and it’s one of the few times I adamantly agree with Erik B.
There is nothing really special about the architecture of the Old Elks Building (OEB). It is basically a cinder block cake with a bunch of fancy icing attached to its exterior. It seems that all the protests about its demise have been generated by those who have shared memories of its former grandeur (and only 20 or so of those who experienceed it since it’s been left dormant for 40+ years are still alive). The property has been left in limbo partiality because the City has represented its Past Glory and prevented the previous owner from making something of one of the best locations in the entire city (remember Mr. Zimmerman who died before he could make anything happen with the property he purchased in the hopes it was a decent investment after years of hearings and court action?). Agreed Zimmerman would have razed OEB and put up something modern and made a great deal of $$. But was prevented by The City. And that is going back over 10 years.
Finally Grace Pleasants and Rick Moses (along with instigator Dan Voepel) came up with a plan and people who could make this old cinder block building work. And what do we get from the our citizens/commssion? Complaints! Why not (sorry) rejoice in this progress? Why complain about a wood-built Union Club which (again) the City has allowed to fall into disrepair? Instead, to save the Union Club (we all remember it as Dave’s On Broadway – but don’t forget the Twisted Cue. The floors were more wavy than the surf off Maui, the carpets were the same, and the service was less than observable – and they complained that they didn’t get community support?!?) We must also take into account the design of the new building north of OEB so that it blends with Dave’s? Please!
Let us move on. If not, stop complaining about the ‘retarded’ condition (meaning ‘behind the times’) Tacoma finds itself.
T Tacoma Thinker January 21, 2011
It seems like a large portion of Exit133 readers are designers of one kind or another…coincidence?
J Jesse January 21, 2011
“There is nothing really special about the architecture of the Old Elks Building (OEB). It is basically a cinder block cake with a bunch of fancy icing attached to its exterior.” — Rick Jones
Really? So what other buildings in the northwest are significantly more special than this? Have you SEEN the interior of this diamond in the rough? It will be insanely beautiful when restored.
PS- Zimmerman was a fool.
R RR Anderson January 21, 2011
Mr. Jones. One really really really needs to question the real-estate smarts of a man who champions the dastardly actions of Mr. Zimmerman who had a special spot on Tacoma’s FILTHY 15 landlord list for I don’t know a Decade? Jesus Christ! Who else is on your short list of victim-heroes? Paul Post?
Let us now take a moment to remember Mr. Zimmerman’s greatest contribution to the people… which quite frankly was DYING of old age.
INSHALLAH
R RR Anderson January 21, 2011
Union Club, now that place can go to hell.
M Mofo from the Hood January 21, 2011
The University Union Club and the old F-order of Elks and the Graffiti Garages and The What Shoppe share the same street.
M Morty January 21, 2011
Where I come from we call the historical society the hysterical society … always in the way of progress for self-serving reasons. Let’s not get distracted or let that happen here. It’s a fantastic project. If the developers can finance it let’s get this damn thing built.
D Daniel January 21, 2011
We are lucky enough to have a team of developers working on this project who all have an excellent track record for historic preservation and respect of landmark properties. Let’s allow them to implement the most feasible and profitable business plan for the site, so that it stays vibrant and active for years to come. I don’t want to drive past this site in 10 years and wonder why it’s empty.
J Jesse January 21, 2011
One thing Tacoma really has going for it is that so many treasures like the Elks Temple have been neglected for so many years. That’s right, it’s a plus. That’s because these structures still exist here where in a more vibrant city like Seattle or Portland, many of these sorts of buildings were knocked down years ago.
I think buildings have a life cycle. If they make it into a certain age, they may be in trouble of being replaced. If they make it even further in age, they start becoming important, interesting, and coveted. They made it past the danger zone. Tacoma has a lot of buildings that have come into this phase in the last decade or so just because the downtown core was neglected during the time where these buildings might have been easily discarded if they were elsewhere.
Whether it’s a Hilltop/North Slope house with all original unpainted mahogany woodwork, the Elks Temple, Old City Hall, or whatever, Tacoma is unique in this market for the NW.
That’s not intended to be a back-handed compliment but it is indeed true. So, knocking down another Luzon or not saving the Elks would be a huge disaster for Tacoma’s personality… and that is exactly why people will want to be here in the future.
R Rick Jones January 21, 2011
Wow, what a spanking!
I simply don’t think The Old Elks Building is that great as a building.
@11 – Yes I’ve been on the inside and it is not hard to see how remarkable it might have been 40 years ago. I attended the presentation the McMenamins and Pleasants/Moses gave a few weeks ago and viewed what they have planned. Beautiful and very impressive.
More significant buildings in the NW? Easily a dozen in 98402 alone: Old City Hall, Urban Waters, The Convention Center, N Pac RR Bldg, the Waddell, the Carlton, TAM, the Glass Museum, the Winthrop, etc.
@12 – It is what it is, the Elks is still here and something fantasic is being done with it. But I also wonder what might have been in its place and how it might have accelerated the renewal of Tacoma (plus added unknown revenue) 10 or 12 years ago. I have seen the OEB almost every day from the intersection of Hwy 705 and Stadium Way for 10 years and wondered what kind of welcoming sign it was for others coming into the city for the first time. That’s my take.
P.S. I hope Zimmerman’s family hasn’t followed this thread.
K k mclaren January 21, 2011
Years ago, I chauffeured several prominent architects through our city. They were gathered here to jury a design awards program, representing the work of architects from the local Chapter of the American Institute of Architects. One of the jury architects in the car I drove was Mr. Frasca, (of ZGF fame). I remember his comment to this day, “It’s too bad that when Seattle architects come to Tacoma, they don’t give it their best work.”
I will never criticize an architect’s work without knowing the precise nature of their relationship with the building owner. That said, I would like to know that at least one person from Tacoma has asked Mr. Frasca this question, “Is this project among your firm’s best work?”
Tacoma deserves it as much as anyone.
C crenshaw sepulveda January 21, 2011
Do people seriously believe this fancy parking garage, apartments/hotel will actually be built and occupied? We are looking at a bunch of renderings, we’ve seen renderings before, doesn’t mean a thing. The only way this project see the light of day is if the city of Tacoma throws butt loads of money at it. Even then only Pleasants and her partners will pocket the bulk of that city money. Stop the welfare for real estate developers. They are large part of the reason we got into this financial mess, why keep encouraging them. If we don’t feed them maybe they’ll go away.
R RR Anderson January 21, 2011
Don’t let them make the new building TOO NICE or the Washington state attorney general office will want to move in.
A Argentius January 25, 2011
I am not a developer, an architect, or a history professor.
I am no expert at all.
I like the Elks building.
I like many of the McMenamin’s restaurant / restoration and preservation projects I’ve been to in Portland and surrounds.
This is a good thing for Tacoma. Get it going.
If not this, then what?
J Jesse January 26, 2011
Beware. If you don’t like the height of the new apartment building and you want people density in that portion of downtown, there are only a few vacant lots left in that neighborhood to build big enough buildings to create critical mass. Otherwise, the option is to tear down old buildings to add density. I’d rather use the vacant lots.