Pacific Avenue Streetscape Charette - Thursday!
Public Charette Pacific Avenue Streetscape Project
The City of Tacoma would like your feedback. The public is invited to provide input and comment on conceptual designs completed for the Pacific Avenue Streetscape Project. What design elements will be crucial to a thriving, attractive Pacific Avenue corridor?
Phase One of the project will improve the right-of-way from 7th Street to 17th Street and provide a streetscape design that complements the completed Pacific Avenue streetscape (17th Street to 21st Street). The project will incorporate innovative stormwater management design, complete streets concepts, multimodal transportation and wayfinding. The new streetscape will also be designed to attract and encourage new business in downtown Tacoma.
This should be an absolutely fascinating presentation and discussion. If you go, let us know what you think. If you don’t go, let us know what you think anyway.
Proposal Image 1
Proposal Image 2
Details
Thursday December 9, 2010
9:00 a.m. – noon
Tacoma Art Museum
1701 Pacific Avenue
Tacoma, WA 98402
49 comments
R RR Anderson December 7, 2010
Beautiful. Where are the buses ?
M Mary Inge Saenz December 7, 2010
Any planning that does not include restoration/preservation of the Old City Hall with clock tower would be a tragic waste of Tacoma’s history. The old train station is central only because of the Tower. Just past the Tower is Stadium High School.
Z Z December 7, 2010
Looks like a great place to get mugged at night! While i can see the need for improvements, narrowing pacifc avenue down to one lane each way isnt the solution. Not only is there no room for transit, pacific Avenue already backs up infront of the UW, and all you’d be doing now is extending the traffic jam all the way through town. I think the city needs to dismiss this firm and find someone whos a little bit more in tune with urban screetscapes and traffic issues.
R RR Anderson December 7, 2010
Pacific is extra wide because it was designed to run a street car down the middle. seems like a waste to fill it all in with trees. Like what #4 is saying.
D dolly varden December 7, 2010
The separated bike path is a great idea, especially given all the other streets downtown with angled, back-out parking that’s a disaster waiting to happen for bikes.
P Point.Dexter December 7, 2010
What.a.freaking.diversion.of.brainpower.and.money.
Downtown.doesnt.need.streetscape.development.
It.needs.economic/business.development.
K Kyle Alm December 7, 2010
Too bad that anyone who would use Pacific as a thoroughfare is going to be at work. Nice community engagement.
L leftcoastgrrl December 8, 2010
One example of a streetscape that transformed a small city is Santa Cruz CA (also called Pacific Ave). It can work to bring foot and bike and other traffic in to a zone to attract and sustain business. I’ve seen it happen in many previously “dead” downtown areas in small cities.
I’m one of the people who lives in Tacoma and works downtown. At UWT, we see a need for more business to keep the tourists and students and staff who are there busy during a day/evening. But a streetscape is a start.
It would be great if the people who are so negative about attempts to make something happen in Tacoma would quit critizing and start suggesting solutions. The negativity is driving me and others away from this blog, which I like and want to support. Enough, already, with the bitching.
T Tacoma1 December 8, 2010
I’m planning on stopping in tommorrow to see what’s up. It’s hard to tell from the photo but those extra street trees look like they might be planted in bulb outs. If so, they won’t take much room at all.
Currently, Pacific Ave downtown isn’t working well for traffic flow or for spurring downtown business. The crosswalks aren’t exactly pedestrian safe zones either. And dolly varden has an excellent point about Tacoma’s head first angle in parking fetish. It’s unsafe for cyclists. The status quo isn’t working well for anyone.
I’m looking forward to some more improvements down there.
P Point.Dexter December 8, 2010
Wide.boulevards.allow.high.speed.traffic.flow.for.business.transactions;
such.as.employee.travel,product.distribution,and.customer.access.
P Point.Dexter December 8, 2010
This.streetscape.plan.is.nothing.less.than.
the.groundwork.to.convert.downtown.into.a.
succession.of.community.gardens.for.all.
you.neohippie.subsistence.farmers.
Freakin.Hoedaddys!
D DavidS December 8, 2010
@ 5, 7 &13: Re: Angle Parking
One of the reasons the area around UWT is so bad is because of the head-in angle parking. It takes longer to inch your way out of a space when you can’t tell if traffic is stopped for you or not. Meanwhile the person waiting for your space is backing up traffic through S. 17th.
A policy switch to back-in would help alleviate this while also increasing safety. However, it does depend on street use priorities as angled parking takes space away from something else.
D Daniel December 8, 2010
i’ve spoken with engineers about working in Tacoma with new landscape and green area design concepts. a lot of forethought needs to be put into stormwater conveyance here for two reasons.
1. Much of the soil along the waterfront cannot be excavated easily because of rampant contamination. this makes the installation of stormwater and sewer lines problematic.
2. The slope of Pacific Avenue and the impermeability of the soil base downtown means that water can’t simply soak and filter into the soil naturally. It is going to run off somewhere – quite rapidly – regardless of what Low Impact design features are installed. That means that additional piping will probably have to be installed to handle the runoff demands of new landscaping and convey water into the existing system. The “green” stormwater design, then, is really just cosmetic.
Maybe.
P Point.Dexter December 8, 2010
You.know.what?
After.your.visit.to.Pacific.Ave.to.pound.down.six.fancy.cupcakes.and.
eight.sushi.fishes,maybe.a.bloated.sprint.across.a.speedy.thoroughfare.
would.improve.your.health.
L low bar December 8, 2010
bike lanes are great. i will ride my scooter all up in that crap on my way to cross fit. in fact i proposed to turn the entire strip of avenue in question into a giant obstacle course for those without a mangina.
P Praetorian December 8, 2010
@Daniel: The LID features are most likely for water quality treatment rather than infiltration. Pretreating stormwater by infiltrating it through a soil profile and vegetation is a Low Impact stormwater management technique; not LID is necessarily infiltration, although that is the holy grail of LID stormwater management.
@Low Bar: WTF are you talking about? How in the shit would the city be able to take capital facilities funds and lower the rent on privately owned tenant spaces downtown?
T Trashtown December 8, 2010
Lower the rent and loosen the codes. The people will design the city, just let them!
T Tacoma1 December 8, 2010
It just takes one or two lowlifes to spoil a perfectly good blog.
I for one would be happy if some folks would take their filth elsewhere.
R Rob December 8, 2010
Where is the “like” button for Tacoma1’s comment?
Let’s move this conversation, and Tacoma, forward.
L low bar December 8, 2010
lv ptght lrkrs
P Point.Dexter December 8, 2010
vr.ntc.tht.th.ppl.wh.clm.to.b.th.mst.tlrnt….rnt?
L low bar December 8, 2010
grt.pnt.
sm.ppl.nd.t.jst.slpp.d.bss.mn
C Christine December 8, 2010
“Like”
Y You're Welcome December 8, 2010
Can we afford this?
P Point.Dexter December 9, 2010
Lick
T tacoma1 December 9, 2010
what are you………12 yrs old?
L low bar December 9, 2010
“Like”
P Peter Peter December 9, 2010
Can we afford this?
Isn’t the money for this coming from the the state “Russell Proposal” funds? Somebody know?
R Rick Jones December 9, 2010
@35 The money for the first phase – streetscape from 17th – 7th, $8,000,000, is already in the bank and comes from federal stimulus funds. The second phase – addressing the Prairie Trail, Tollefson Plaza (sic) and TAM is, at this point unfunded.
Phase one seems to have five basic elements:
1. Trees, trees, and more trees. But not Trees in Pots.
2. Rain gardens to address/treat surface water that goes directly to the Bay.
3. Reducing Pacific from five lanes to three and introducing a different form of street parking, either back-in angle or parallel.
4. Bikes lanes
5. Connectivity. Eliminating the dead space between 15th and 11th with the four elements cited above.
Impressive plan. They hope to begin contruction later next year.
I can’t remember what happened to the $700,000 ‘Russell’ money from the governor. I thought Mr. Anderson was going to use it for a parking lot for DaVita.
E Erik B. December 9, 2010
@Rick: Are they proposing reducing any of the parking spaces on Pacific Avenue by “greening up” with suburban buffers?
If so, by how many?
R Rick Jones December 9, 2010
@Erik B – There wasn’t total clarity on that but the message I got was they were determined not to reduce street parking at all. They are sensitive about narrowing Pacific because those that want to stay in their cars are already complaining about the choke point down by UWT during the PM commute. The idea is that back-in angle parking will help relieve this a bit. It is further submitted – accurately I think – that the stretch from TAM to 9th is way too much road except for about 30-45 minutes each week day.
E Erik B. December 9, 2010
@Steve: Thanks for the feedback. The impact on parking spaces is a super critical issue and one hotly debated during the Broadway LID designs phase.
On some of the Broadway LID designs, green buffers were thrown in randomly to “green it up.”
The end result was pretty good though, actually increased the number of parking spaces, little wasted space and a significant improvement to downtown.
T Trashtown December 10, 2010
WOW, TACOMA, BABY, DON’T DO THIS! Those proposal photos are one of the most depressing things I’ve seen in a long time. The old timey wagon with flowers in it? Get a grip people!
T tacoma1 December 10, 2010
The photos are for conceptual purposes only. They’re to show some of the things that could be done. They aren’t of the final design. You can’t just read a couple of headlines, glance at a couple of photo’s, and then become an expert based on such limited information.
R rick December 10, 2010
@42… how dare you suggest one cannot become an expert on any given matter by merely reading a couple of headlines and glancing at some photos. You should know that it is that exact manner of acquired expertise that is the very engine behind this blog and nearly every comment thread. We are blessed with experts on real estate, experts on art, experts on pot holes, experts on street cars… and there are bridge experts, food experts, bus people experts, music experts, legal experts, economic experts… experts on sociological phenomenon, experts on entrepreneurialism, experts on politics, experts on grammar, experts on parking, experts on good, experts on bad, and experts on ugly. It is astounding the number of experts we have on exit133. We are a lucky community of “bloggers”. That said, I was just as outraged as you, tacoma1, when I saw Trashtown offered an opinion on the photos they viewed without first offering their credential and a peer reviewed analysis. The nerve of some people offering opinions. We can only hope Derek will block Trashtown’s opinions in the future. Speaking of opinions, whatever happened to mofo. I miss him. Thankfully, RR is still around. And, luckily, by whatever name, we have our newest, most prolific and provocative contributor who.is.among.the.very.few.people.offering.commentary.worth.reading.
R RR Anderson December 10, 2010
nobody else was creeped out that only the cars cast shadows in that rendering?
H Headcase December 10, 2010
I wonder where the downtown shopping center will fit in this equation. With out one, there won’t be any people around to enjoy the rain gardens.
P Point.Dexter December 10, 2010
Maybe.downtown.Tacoma.should.just.start.over.by.relocating.
at.Point.Defiance.along.the.Five.Mile.Drive.
T Trashtown December 12, 2010
Hey woah Old-Timers, don’t hate because I’m telling the truth! New Sidewalks and Rustic flower wagons are not going to revitalize this city! The only thing that ever could is YOUNG PEOPLE, which Tacoma is unconsciously driving out. I’ve said it before, but there is NOTHING for young people here.
P Point.Dexter December 12, 2010
Guess.what…
Narrowing.downtown.Tacoma.streets.since.
the.1960s.dont.attract.no.kinda.people.
except.the.kind.that.make.their.livin.
off.other.peoples.taxes.
T Tim Smith December 12, 2010
A free 2010 BORDC-Tacoma button to the first person that answer this question:
Why does Tacoma have such wide streets?
R RR Anderson December 12, 2010
street cars! no the great white fleet parades.
P Point.Dexter December 13, 2010
Why.do.the.streets.that.lead.out.of.and.
pass.by.Tacoma.keep.getting.wider?
T Tim Smith December 13, 2010
RR get the prize!!!
P Point.Dexter December 13, 2010
Second.prize.goes.to.the.planners.of.the.
Pacific.Avenue.Streetscape.Charade:
A.full.size.replica.set.of.Point.Defiance.
Never.Never.Land.characters.
W We are here to do a job not be politicians! December 13, 2010
I say we ask the architect (Charles?) FROM ARIZONA to carve his name on all of his ‘concepts’. Yes we were given the opportunity for opinion; however, somehow it felt like a lot of head nodding and appeasement in that room. I did not see one example of buses – even though there will be an additional 10 routes added to Pacific no matter what – the “local” firm did not seem to think that the already congested street would be affected much if half of the automobile lanes were taken away! – huh?!!
And why do we have to address ALL forms of transportation when there are many more projects in and around downtown Tacoma that are ear-marked to support alternate forms of transportation.
Sounds like the project is accepting public comments in the form of hot air!
O OrganicGirl December 14, 2010
Why are pedestrians able to cross in all directions at the same time? With only two through lanes and one left-turn lane (with no left turn signal in this artist’s conception) that Prius would be plowing those non-shadow-throwing people down to get the hocking back-up off his butt. Lovely streetlights, though. I’ve been asking the city for something like that on my street for years… and permeable pavement.
D Day Beggar December 14, 2010
No more Daffodil Parade….
O Organic Girl December 14, 2010
Ha – I meant “honking”… not “hocking”, though that’s another possibility.
That dodo/pelican/not-native-whatever-it-is statue really is hilarious…