Tacoma City Council Meeting - Jan. 5th, 2010

24 comments

• C crenshaw sepulveda January 6, 2010

  A public walk/bike way along the the Foss all the way to Pt. Defiance Park would be brilliant. The city of NY has such a thing virtually around the entire island of Manhattan. This is a resource that needs to be made available to all of us here in Tacoma. A good 7 mile walk, run, or bike (make that a 14 miles round trip) would do all of us a lot of good. I’m not a big fan of the fancy condos along the Foss, but a public walk way I can get behind 100 percent. Any creation of public land for the common good is always a good thing in my book. Something that ties our waterfront together should be a priority for our city council. This will be a minor expenditure compared to the public good it creates.

• T tacoma1 January 6, 2010

  This esplanade is an opportunity that very few cities have, but Tacoma does. Seattle is willing to spend a couple billion (some that money is ours) to open their waterfront, but it will be overdeveloped and not nearly as scenic as ours. Portland’s riverfront park may be a close second, but if we develop this esplanade, views of Commencement Bay, Mt Rainer (Mt. Tahoma), the Cascade and Olympic ranges are all visible from a walk or bike ride along here. Shore birds, otters, and eagles flying above. These are things that are especially noticeable when we slow down and travel by foot or bike, not a car.

  People will come here to use and enjoy a path like this. Once here, they will get hungry and eat at our restuarants. Maybe even book a hotel for a night or two. They will go to our museums, and buy things from our gift shops. We will get our money back with an increase in tax revenues. A project like this shouldn’t be considered an expense, but an infrastructure investment, just like a museum, or a bridge. Something that us locals can use daily, but it will also bring in develpment and tourist dollars as well.

• D dolly varden January 6, 2010

  I agree with the previous posts 100%. Squandering the opportunity to connect the waterfront would be a huge mistake with bad implications for the city’s future.

• S Squid January 6, 2010

  As soon as somebody floats a solution for how this esplanade will get around the grain elevators/railroad track bottleneck, I’ll be more likely to be supportive. Taking the path off the waterfront during that (rather lengthy) stretch and to the other side of Schuster Parkway is not a solution I am fond of.

  Y’all have the vision, let’s see the plan.

• T Tacoma1 January 6, 2010

  There is tons of room down there. We just have to pry some land back from cars, and give it back to the humans. Put Schusters on a diet. Take away a lane on each side, and put in bike lanes, pedestrian paths, and place trees bewteen the cars and the humans. And yes I know that means that everyone living in Gig Harbor won’t want to cut through town anymore, and will have to stay on the freeway, but what the hell.

  And for pity’s sake, enforce the 40mph speed limit. Traffic enforcement cops could make a solid living on this road. People treat this road like it’s a friggin highway.

• S Squid January 7, 2010

  Honestly, taking way traffic lanes never occured to me. That is one bold idea.

• T Tacoma1 January 7, 2010

  @Squid
  All it would take to fix Schuster Parkway is a city council with brass balls, a little forward thinking, and a little money. They would also have to be willing to throw the current traffic counts out the window. If we made this into a complete street, the car traffic would go way down, and the human count would go way up.

  If we were serious about reducing traffic on Schuster and installing the esplanade, we could even modify the bus 13 route into a semi-express route. Have it go straight down Schuster from DT T-town, skipping St Helens and Stadium district. There is too much bus route duplication on St Helens anyway. The routes 11 and 16 could be revamped to pick up any missed passengers. That way the 13 route would be more time competitive for commuters going downtown. Just a crazy idea that would probably work like a charm.

• M Marty January 7, 2010

  Why did the the city council pull back on the Ebenal bid?

• T Tacoma Taxpayer98409 January 7, 2010

  I didn’t see the exciting show on TV, why did the City have problems with Ebenal? Are they non-union?

  Or?

  I would agree a walkway along the waterfront would be great….

  Instead all the condos etc that are there and coming

• D dolly varden January 7, 2010

  All we really need is one lane for the bike path — which would leave three lanes. You could have reversible lanes during rush hour, and commuters don’t lose anything (except for a few mph, I would hope).

• T tacoma1 January 7, 2010

  @dolly varden
  I could live with that. 3 lanes would definitely be better than the 4 we currently have to race in. The reality is that the back ups on Schuster isn’t the capacity of Schuster itself, but when you hit the traffic lights in Oldtown, or towards Downtown. There isn’t a whole lot of point to race at 5o+ mph just to wait at a traffic light.

  Take away two lanes, and traffic will slow, and the waits at the stop lights will be less as well. Cars travelling at an actual 40 mph can be spaced safely closer together than cars jockeying to go
  50mph+. The same number of cars will still fit in fewer lanes if driven at safe speeds.

• D dolly varden January 7, 2010

  OK, how about if we take away two lanes and use one for a bike path, one for a streetcar to Old Town?

• S Squid January 7, 2010

  I’m sold. Two lanes or three, either way. Oh, and let’s drop the speed to 30 mph rather than just enforce 40. I drive Schuster every day and there is a lot of excess capacity there. It’s way too valuable of a resource for its current use.

• M Mofo from the Hood January 7, 2010

  Just rip up Schuster and fill the area with imported sand and then plant some beach umbrella’s. If there’s any money left over, then I’d like the City Council to decree a work program for illegal Mexicans to pace the beach selling blankets.

• T Tacoma1 January 9, 2010

  @dolly varden
  As much as I want street cars and light rail all over T-Town…there would be a few problems with a street car here. There may not be enough density to support the ridership needed, as no one lives on the 2 mile stretch between downtown and oldtown. And then, you can’t very easily push, pull, or drag a street car up to the top of 30th st hill.

  I definitely think that this section of roadway has way too much space dedicated to cars, but this is one case where a bus (or maybe a BRT, electric trolley, or express bus) would be the better tool for the job.

• S Squid January 11, 2010

  Sad to say that the city waterway is having more nasty pollutants dumped into it every day by the twin 86’s at end. Millions into clean-up, but we just pour more on top.

• H Highwater January 11, 2010

  @3 “but it will be overdeveloped and not nearly as scenic as ours” (RE: Seattle’s waterfront”

  Really? Let’s see… Seattle’s waterfront = view of Olympic Range from most locations… Sculpture Park at one end…. Pike Place Market at the other… Hmmm… guess I’ll take that ‘overdevelopment’ any day.

  What do you get to see from the esplanade? A large Valero tank farm, a mostly decrepit opposite shore, and looming in the distance, a large paper mill. Ohhh! I forgot about the rusting bridge in the slow process of falling on it all. You must be engaging in some pretty hefty cognitive dissonance. Only in Tacoma would our two condo ‘waterfront,’ one of which sits empty, be preferred to Seattle’s ‘overdevelopment.’ Yeah! Go Tacoma! Good thing we built that nice sidewalk down there for all those trendy urbanites.

• J Jesse January 11, 2010

  Dolly Varden: Aren’t there train tracks (the old Prairie Line) from about Tollefson plaza to Ruston right now? Are they all dedicated lines for freight these days? Could one be used for a streetcar line? You could use DMU vehicles and cut the costs of overhead power to the vehicle, then you’d only need stations and right of way. I’m shocked the old Prairie Line run was never converted to streetcar as it was the perfect possible streetcar run.
  I know there used to be a McCarver Streetcar station on those tracks in Old Tacoma. I have a picture of it in my Tacoma Historical Photos book. So, if it was done pre-1938, why not now? Sorta a no-brainer streetcar line if you ask me. A lot of the costs (aquiring right of way) is already done as well as the whole damned town was built around the Prairie Line in the first place.

• T tacoma1 January 11, 2010

  @Highwater
  From the Thea Foss waterway, Schuster’s Pkwy, and Ruston Way, I can see, the Olympic’s, the Cascades, Mt Rainier, Commencement Bay, Dash Pt lighthouse, Vashon and Maury Island, Dalco Passage.

  From Seattle’s waterfront I can see, the Cascades, Eliott Bay, several dozen active drug dealers, several thousand cars whizzing by.

  To each there own, I guess. I prefer Tacoma’s less developed views over Seattle’s, which is why I live here. You obviously prefer Seattle’s, which is your right to do so.

• 6 6ther January 11, 2010

  Question for anyone who knows the answer…

  What ever happened to that census/data report that Tacoma purchased from a company in Texas (Austin I believe)?

  Tacoma City Council wanted some “state of affairs” perspective of our city from an outside source.

  I remember seeing the preliminary reports posted on Exit 133 with a promise of more info to come.

  Did that ever come?

  More importantly, what ever became of it?

  Is this ringing a bell to anyone?

  Was it a waste of money and time?

• H Highwater January 12, 2010

  @23 “@Highwater
  From the Thea Foss waterway, Schuster’s Pkwy, and Ruston Way, I can see, the Olympic’s, the Cascades, Mt Rainier, Commencement Bay, Dash Pt lighthouse, Vashon and Maury Island, Dalco Passage.”

  Ahhh… but not from the esplanade to which you refer. The point under discussion is the council decision on the esplanade project, which is quite distinct from the waterfront path that kind-of, sort-of connects from the Foss to the much nicer views from Old Town on.

  Alas, I think you’ve missed my point by reading too literally. Comparing the relative quality of Tacoma’s waterfront to Seattle’s is basically pointless. Seattle has more amenities, Tacoma has an emptier slate. Tacoma has made a choice to make the waterfront car friendly, Seattle has made a choice to make it pedestrian friendly. Just count the number of driveways that cross the respective waterfront pathways, and the difference in values becomes clear.

• M Mofo from the Hood January 12, 2010

  A completed esplanade on the west side of Foss Waterway would offer another somewhat quiet (relaxing) outdoor experience that more Tacoman’s could make use of.

  I would guess that kids under driving age would be attracted to such an area as a destination by bicycle or bus plus walking.
  But when I’m out and about walking or biking I don’t see many such kids exploring downtown or the Foss Waterway area. The kids that I do see are usually teenage guys with skateboards; and the focus seems to be skateboarding, not exploring.

• P Papasan January 13, 2010

  Say, that’s a great idea: do to Schuster Parkway, what they did to N 21st, S, 12th. HELL, while we’re at it, why not close ALL the roads and make Tacoma a Bike or walk only town?
  Oh, those people too disabled to bike or walk will bitch and moan for a while, but once their done, this will be the yupified utopia that most only DREAM of.
  I’ll bet we even get write ups in magazines like Sunset, Bicycle, Modern Crosswalk and Psychology Today. The later will probably wonder if we’re all frickin’ NUTZ.
  mofo has a point, though. Most of the youth I see wandering the waterfront are looking for a car to steal. If we let them just steal all the cars, it will make that Bike/Walk only dream closer to reality.

• M Mofo from the Hood January 13, 2010

  Yeah Papasan, Tacoma’s progressive program “Open Your Mind, Narrow The Streets” has been in effect since at least the 1960’s.

  In this evolving “Great Society” for whatever goal, an increasing number of people riding bicycles or walking is not readily apparent.

  However, the strategy of building pedestrian corridors on piers has yet to disprove its merit.

  It’s possible that if independent pier structures for travel by walking or biking proves to be popular, then the pier system used over waterways may be applied to land.

  There is ample evidence that pier structures are effective and efficient for gas-powered vehicles like cars and trucks.

  One possible scenario for the future could involve a lengthy and costly political battle for priority status of travel, whether by corridors on land or on piers—-In effect, a new class war to decide which type of traveler will dominate the low roads and which type of traveler will dominate the high roads.*

  *It was not my intent to include the possibility and complexities of implementing a street car system, horse-drawn or otherwise.